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Cinema 4D Indie version - What's your opinion about this?


Cinema 4D Indie version  

77 members have voted

  1. 1. Should there be a C4D Indie version?

    • Yes, Cinema 4D is too expensive compared to other packages and I've switched to another package or I am planning to do so.
      43
    • Yes, Cinema 4D is too expensive compared to other packages but I'm not planning to switch to another package.
      26
    • No, Cinema 4D is not too expensive and there's no need for a Indie version.
      4
    • I'm not sure about this / I don't care.
      4


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  • Community Staff
10 hours ago, ChrisSchmidt said:

Interesting topic when it comes to the indie model, as it's the world that's changed about the software. Wonder if that leads to a race to the bottom/cheapest as has happened to so many things. Especially as MAXON has a totally free student version. Make me think of video game industry and how they haven't properly increased prices in decades even though the complexity/cost to make them has skyrocketed. Leading to loot boxes, micro transactions, and incomplete games that then have paid DLC.

 

That is true. But even without microtransactions games are raking in LOADS of profit. I am not against microtransactions per se, but you can't possibly defend the insane predatory stuff that companies like EA and Activision have been doing for years, especially in the sports games genre like FIFA and Madden. They ask for 60€ each year with some minor roster changes, literally copy pasting the majority of the games (there's screenshots of FIFA 20XX having the banners of the version from the year before on the internet) and deleting all the Ultimate Team progress for every player with each new year.

 

It's insanely predatory and I'm glad it's finally being adressed by governments around the world.

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Why is it that Houdini, 3ds Max and Maya all have very affordable and powerful indie versions and C4d does not?   When I purchased c4D studio (R17) it came with two years of MSA free. So I p

I'm in the first camp, have already switched to Blender. I used to teach Cinema 4D and now I teach Blender, mainly to beginners. MAXON is completely overlooking that group of people, they have nothing

What is really scary is that Greyscale Gorilla is now going the 100% subscription route.  All perpetual license sales are ending.  As an owner of their plugins (Signal and GorillaCam) they will only s

11 hours ago, ChrisSchmidt said:

 

 

Interesting topic when it comes to the indie model, as it's the world that's changed about the software. Wonder if that leads to a race to the bottom/cheapest as has happened to so many things. Especially as MAXON has a totally free student version. Make me think of video game industry and how they haven't properly increased prices in decades even though the complexity/cost to make them has skyrocketed. Leading to loot boxes, micro transactions, and incomplete games that then have paid DLC.

 

Keep in mind that in the case of videogames, the market has also grown a lot, so you can more easily sell more copies of your game compared to 20-30 years ago. A game like the original Legend of Zelda sold about 6.5 million copies total. A game like The Witcher 3 sold 28 million copies. Loot boxes and micro transactions are also not an unavoidable consequence of increased development costs at all. There are many big games (like the Witcher 3) that don't have sh** like that. It had DLC but without it the game was certainly anything but "incomplete" and I'm sure they still made money.

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14 hours ago, Icecaveman said:

I thought I edited my post. It was Nick that I think only works 4 hours a week! I'd never dream of doubting your hard work! You created all the plugins for GSG and you and Chad were busy with tutorials. Nick's work seemed limited to the rare mail-it-in tutorial and "business development."

 

I'll bet that you are too much the gentleman to confirm my suspicion. And I'd also bet  that you and Chad have laughed about how little Nick does.

GSG has come a long way. From nick’s early tutorials to plugins and GSG plus today I can only admire how the business was grown and nurtured, even if I find their prices crazy high. I also miss this sense of GSG community from back in the day. This site has become a full fledged business and lost a bit of its magic. 
Nick still deserves praise for his achievements. It’s not something you achieve by working 4h a week. Even if the site now has a solid base of registered users. 

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  • Silver Contributor
On 3/19/2021 at 3:33 PM, dast said:

I have read answers in this thread on a regular base when they got posted ... but I actually never noticed there was a poll available.

For me personally none of the possible poll options apply.

An Indie version would definitely have been welcome when I started out, back in the days with version 9.

That would also mean the upgrade or MSA would consequently have costed less.

 

Although I am not holding my breath for MAXON to decide and release an Indie version.

And honestly, I am not sure I would be tempted in one ... especially these days. I am glad they released R20, but whatever has come after that was just ****, considering its price tag.

Sure, nice new features have been added all along. But the general feel of the application has been lost on me.

 

They're currently at R23, and probably S24 will soon see the day. But that doesn't make my R20 obsolete.

I also have a perpetual license for R21, but each time I start up that version it makes me sick, due to all the baggage that version carries along in terms of bad memories, bad user-experience, and what not.

I enjoy the user-experience of pre R21 versions and, don't feel the need to learn a different application ... as long as I can keep my R20 running.

 

At the current upgrade price for a perpetual license I am more inclined to jump ship then to upgrade.

And since I will never subscribe, an Indie version might be a possible teaser to keep me upgrading to future versions.

But I am pretty sure we'll never see one being released.

 

So, I guess my vote would be:

yes, Cinema4D is too expensive, but I haven't switched, but I don't care as I am staying at R20

Dan,

 

First off...still love your work and still mourning your absence from the plugin market.

 

With that said, I am NOT against paying for upgrades. 

 

Here is what I am NOT willing to pay for:

 

1) Bug fixes...sorry, but that also includes stability improvements.

2) New licenses to match C4D upgrades (eg. same program, no major code changes, just generating a new license to work with a new version of C4D)

3) Renting the same (and not improved) program year after year.

 

Here is what I am willing to pay for via an upgrade pricing model:

  1. New major architecture changes to continue working with significant changes to C4D's core architecture -- in essence I do believe setting up the program to work with future C4D releases is a worthy investment on my part as with it comes the potential for the next three items:
  2. New features
  3. Speed improvements
  4. Scale improvements (ability to handle much large object sets, better viewport performance, etc).

And here is what I am absolutely dead-set against and where I think GSG crossed the line: 

  • Having to buy into leasing a much larger set of products in order to keep my plugin current.   Why do I have to buy materials and training if I just want my plugin to work with future versions of C4D?  Seriously....what were they thinking? 

Sorry, if I want textures I can go to Pixel Lab (who offers just as much variety in textures and models for various render engines plus ODB based products as well -- and at a much fairer price --- especially when you catch them on Black Friday).  For training, I can go to Core4D, Rocket Lasso, Eye Design, Wolf 3D and a thousand other YouTube channels.

 

Dave

 

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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15 hours ago, Icecaveman said:

I thought I edited my post. It was Nick that I think only works 4 hours a week! I'd never dream of doubting your hard work! You created all the plugins for GSG and you and Chad were busy with tutorials. Nick's work seemed limited to the rare mail-it-in tutorial and "business development."

 

I'll bet that you are too much the gentleman to confirm my suspicion. And I'd also bet  that you and Chad have laughed about how little Nick does.

Thanks for the clarification! Apologies back atcha.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/31/2021 at 12:39 PM, DasFrodo said:

MAXON has a totally free student version

That is very nice to know. I got one request about teaching 3d basics with Blender but as hardcore Cinema 4D enthusiast I was like that "I like only to teach Cinema 4D".

But on the other hand I could pick up Blender and teach how to model a teacup or dice that is very beginner level.

I felt that some private schools do not afford anything but blender. Of course this is also a wise move from MAXON because otherwise students will choose free software over expensive. 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/article/MAXON-one-subscription-now-available-to-students

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34 minutes ago, ahven said:

That is very nice to know. I got one request about teaching 3d basics with Blender but as hardcore Cinema 4D enthusiast I was like that "I like only to teach Cinema 4D".

But on the other hand I could pick up Blender and teach how to model a teacup or dice that is very beginner level.

I felt that some private schools do not afford anything but blender. Of course this is also a wise move from MAXON because otherwise students will choose free software over expensive. 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/article/MAXON-one-subscription-now-available-to-students

It is correct that every student can get a free c4d license for its private computer. But for the installation on computer pools of schools and universities things are a bit different. Depending on how long you plan to give c4d courses the installation on these pools might be free  or cost some hundred bucks per computer.

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39 minutes ago, Jops said:

It is correct that every student can get a free c4d license for its private computer. But for the installation on computer pools of schools and universities things are a bit different. Depending on how long you plan to give c4d courses the installation on these pools might be free  or cost some hundred bucks per computer.

Yes sure. Free student version works as an advertisement gateway for schools. Students can first test Cinema 4D on their personal computer.

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16 hours ago, ahven said:

Yes sure. Free student version works as an advertisement gateway for schools. Students can first test Cinema 4D on their personal computer.

It's not really free.  They have to pay $2.99. It's very little, but not free. Maya, 3ds Max and Houdini student licenses are actually free.

 

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  • Community Staff
9 hours ago, hikarubr said:

It's not really free.  They have to pay $2.99. It's very little, but not free. Maya, 3ds Max and Houdini student licenses are actually free.

 

 

I did not pay a single cent for my C4D Student version when I had it a couple of years ago.

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  • Igor unfeatured this topic

 

On 4/11/2021 at 9:02 AM, DasFrodo said:

 

I did not pay a single cent for my C4D Student version when I had it a couple of years ago.

Well, years ago is not today.

This is a very recent and unfortunate decision of MAXON.

I just discovered when my students complained that they have to pay for the student license.

Now you have to use a third-party service called Kivuto to get the student license and you have to pay $2.99 "service fee" to Kivuto.

Between this, MAXON actually charging my school for student licenses, and no C4D indie version, I'm seriously considering going back to Maya for my introductory class.

 

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  • Community Staff
1 hour ago, hikarubr said:

 

Well, years ago is not today.

This is a very recent and unfortunate decision of MAXON.

I just discovered when my students complained that they have to pay for the student license.

Now you have to use a third-party service called Kivuto to get the student license and you have to pay $2.99 "service fee" to Kivuto.

Between this, MAXON actually charging my school for student licenses, and no C4D indie version, I'm seriously considering going back to Maya for my introductory class.

 

Eugh, that sucks.

 

But I can't say that $2,99 is a lot. I certainly wouldn't have minded if I had to pay that during my time at the university.

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