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Guest Igor

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2 hours ago, hvanderwegen said:

@Igor Thanks for reminding me about ArmorPaint! I sponsored the developer a year ago, or so, and utterly forget about it since then.

 

Seems that the new versions warrants a fresh look again. Combine this with Quixel Mixer, and it's a pretty good combo, I think.

Yea, but development seems quite slow. And SP wins as long as it have baking capabilities. Its hard to beat that convenience. But as soon as QM or AP introduce those, I am switching. Seems like Adobe put a nail in the coffin of latest SP release. I am reading quite alarming reviews on latest update on Steam. 

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1 hour ago, Igor said:

Yea, but development seems quite slow. And SP wins as long as it have baking capabilities. Its hard to beat that convenience.

 

baking.jpg.8bf882f2644ff0d0e55de6df6b3611f0.jpg

 

You mean like this? AP seems to support baking now. I just tested it with an AO baked map.

 

PS performance seems really good: I loaded the 2.4 million faces test dragon, and the OBJ file loaded in a split second. Really fast loader!

 

Painting is smooth. I think I am going to use AP in my next project for testing.

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3 minutes ago, hvanderwegen said:

 

baking.jpg.8bf882f2644ff0d0e55de6df6b3611f0.jpg

 

You mean like this? AP seems to support baking now. I just tested it with an AO baked map.

 

PS performance seems really good: I loaded the 2.4 million faces test dragon, and the OBJ file loaded in a split second. Really fast loader!

 

Painting is smooth. I think I am going to use AP in my next project for testing.

Keep me posted, if thats the case, here I come AP. Thanks for the update, would be great if you could make some quick video’s how baking works. No need of a sound, gif would be fine. 🙂

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16 minutes ago, hvanderwegen said:

Here ya go.

https://gofile.io/d/RajFKG

 

But really, it is super simple; create a new layer, switch to the Bake tab, select AO, and bake.

That really looks great. I like how baking goes through layers which you can multiply or just export easly. What about other maps, like curvature? Does it have triplanar projection? World Space Normals?

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1 hour ago, Igor said:

What about other maps, like curvature? Does it have triplanar projection? World Space Normals?

 

Triplanar projection is included (XYZ). For normal maps there seem to be two options: Normal Object and Normal. I assume the second option uses world space normals.

 

The manual lists the baking options here:

 

https://armorpaint.org/manual

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15 hours ago, hvanderwegen said:

 

Triplanar projection is included (XYZ). For normal maps there seem to be two options: Normal Object and Normal. I assume the second option uses world space normals.

 

The manual lists the baking options here:

 

https://armorpaint.org/manual

I just purchased the license. Gonna test it out later this week. Thanks for insights. ☺️

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I tested AP with the XYZ Stanford Dragon - a 7.2 million faces model. The obj import is surprisingly fast, and painting is smooth on my system.

 

With multiple layers and masks I did notice a slowdown at some point. And I miss adjustment layers and the option to assign adjustment layers to masks - I use this all the time in PhotoLine.

 

 

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I've noticed there are two different build, one is much faster from another, not sure exactly why, probably due to rendering in viewport differences. I think thats the fundamental difference.

 

I never heard of PhotoLine...

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Yes, there seem to be builds / special versions for RTX capable (20XX/30XX) Nividia cards. Since I am still stuck with an older GTX1080, that version runs very slow for me as well.

 

PhotoLine is an image editor, similar to Photoshop, that's been around since Atari ST times! Not that many people are aware it exists, because the developers don't advertise or market it actively in any way.

 

I prefer PhotoLine over Photoshop and Affinity Photo as my main image editing hub. It is capable of some unique tricks. For example:

 

  • layers can be cloned/instanced, and reused anywhere (even as masks).
  • the layer opacity operates from -200 up to +200 !  Imagine Affinity Photo or Photoshop allowing a negative opacity - basically reversing mixing modes or doubling up on layer effects. This also works with the non-destructive adjustment layers for quite interesting possibilities.
  • An infinite depth of adjustment layers and masks is possible. Adjustment layers can be applied to masks, which can have masks with other adjustment layers and layer instances.
  • Each layer may have its own bit depth (1/8/16/32 bits per channel), its own colour profile, and its own resolution. All independent and non-destructive. The background layer decides the final render intent (in image mode), so even switching to a different image mode does not affect the content of layers. Switch to greyscale, switch back to 32bit colour: all layers retained their original data.
  • adjustment layers can be applied to other adjustment layers
  • infinite number of mask layers with sub-mask layers, etcetera.
  •  
  • bitmap gradients for masks are non-destructive(!)
  • all layer transformations are non-destructive, and unlike Affinity Photo and Photoshop the user may edit the pixel content at any time.
  • full vector layer support. Pretty good vector editing tools: blending objects, warping vector objects, vector/bitmap combined fills, and so on. Also conversion of bitmap to vector.
    The latest beta introduces proper mesh gradients.
  • scripting support
  • proper "smart objects". Even the option to non-destructively assign Photoshop compatible filters to these, just like Photoshop. Also the option to link external files: update the external file, and the master file updates too.
  • built-in non-destructive procedural patterns and noises. And unlike Affinity Photo, all done with a visual interface.
  • File support for various file formats which are missing in Photoshop and Affinity: webp (animated as well), animated PNG (latest beta), JPG 2000/XR. Import of autocad files, and many other more obscure file formats.
  • completely non-destructive layer-based workflow. Much more so than Affinity Photo: RAW development is non-destructive, for example, and does not require a "special" workspace. It is just part of the regular layers.
  • HDR workflow support. LAB workflow support.  EXR import. Normalizing of z-index and HDR layers.
  • support for external applications: send your layer or file to an external app for editing, save, and PhotoLine picks up on these changes automatically.
    Works great with many applications. Even InkScape with SVG as an intermediate format. Send a layer to Krita, work on it, save, switch back to PhotoLine, and the layer is updated.
    Which allows for quick round-trip editing with most other apps. Or send layers/results to external apps for finishing and export.
    This last option is my favourite. It saves so much time in my workflow.
  • The developers are incredibly responsive. Many of my suggestions and requests were implemented - often by the next beta version. Often small improvements were added within a week.

I have a license of Affinity Photo, Designer, and Publisher. I use Publisher, but Photo and Designer have proved to be... awkward and frustrating to work with. Too many paper cuts, missing basic features, and overall stunted workflow in my opinion.

 

I do use Affinity Photo for HDR and stacking, though. But that is it. Just too many little frustrating things that proved to be workflow stoppers for me personally.

 

That said, PhotoLine requires manual work to change the rather inconvenient default settings. It is more of an image editor for advanced users, and tutorials are almost non-existent!

 

Here is my setup:

Untitled.jpg.6ff16252c5a50caa7eef4855f0052b51.jpg

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Lets not forget how Affinity products are super cheap, so can’t really complain there. I will definitely check PL, thanks for sharing the info. 

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