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R25 Expectations


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22 minutes ago, Igor said:

I am interested why would you need this when there are now scene Nodes, just curious? 

I was told that nodes will eventually replace Xpresso but not any time soon, that this will take time. 

 

So, I'd like to have some Xpresso updates RIGHT now, as I use XPresso a lot in my projects.

For example, at least the scaling on the nodes should be fixed. 

I hate that the name of the nodes and attributes disappear depending on how much you have zoomed.

Also, the connections are too tiny in any resolution bigger than Full HD.

Just compare the XPresso nodes with Octane or the Material Nodes. The Octane node system is a pleasure to work with.

Also, multi-thread in Xpresso would be nice.

But I know those won't happen.

 

And they are not my top priority in my wishliist (symmetry, redshift integration indie version, HumanIK level character tools, old UI colors, would be my priority).

 

Frankly, MAXON, just give me real symmetry and I'll be happy. I can't believe Cinema4D STILL has no real symmetry for modeling and painting in 2021. 

My students don't believe either - it's always embarrassing to have to defend Cinema4D in class because of stuff like that. 

 

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Sadly this is the truth now. I also know many developers who have left C4D plugin development. With the cost of subscriptions and the fact that nobody wants to pay to help develop a plugin to its full

+1 on your entire post. Since the release of R21 I seem to have noticed quite a decline in plugin purchases ... that was until I entirely stopped the business due to costs rising way over benefit

Are they really?... Xpresso is a basic, easy, clear piping of position X into position Y that mortals can comprehend.   Scenes nodes is.... decomposing a global matrix, splitting a matrix in

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44 minutes ago, hikarubr said:

I was told that nodes will eventually replace Xpresso but not any time soon, that this will take time

Neutron or Scene nodes, are vastly superior to Xpresso in all aspects as of right now.  If you use Xpresso a lot in your projects, then you will love the scene nodes and will never look back once you realize how powerful they are : )

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9 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

Neutron or Scene nodes, are vastly superior to Xpresso in all aspects as of right now.  If you use Xpresso a lot in your projects, then you will love the scene nodes and will never look back once you realize how powerful they are : )

But how? I don’t see anyone using scene nodes in their projects. People are using Xpresso right now, not scene nodes.

 

Just give us an xpresso update, instead of making people wait another 15 years for scene nodes to be completed. Quit stringing people along with this “new core” marketing fluff.

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My expectations is a steady increase in instability as we have seen since R20. R25 will probably auto open task manager to quicken the use of the "end task" operation.

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1 hour ago, mrittman said:

But how? I don’t see anyone using scene nodes in their projects. People are using Xpresso right now, not scene nodes.

 

Just give us an xpresso update, instead of making people wait another 15 years for scene nodes to be completed. Quit stringing people along with this “new core” marketing fluff.

 

Yeah, Scene Nodes look really powerful and cool, but I honestly don't understand the thinking behind it.

Why not update Xpresso and add everything you can do with the Scene Nodes?

What is the logic behind forcing the users to learn a totally new node based scripting language instead of updating the one we have been using for years?

Ironically, this abandonment of Xpresso by Maxon is one of the reasons I'm not sure I'll waste my time learning Scene Nodes.

What is the point of learning it if down the line Maxon decides to abandon it like it did with Xpresso?

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23 is a lucky number so I might stick with it. 

The move of content browser online and download only is just one more thing removed from perpetual. 

 

With the increase in the cyber attacks, relying on a software to always be online or ping home for active license is a bit of a worry tbh. Maybe it's because with my job in IT Support can see the vulnerabilities we're dealing with shoot up exponentially recently. 

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6 hours ago, mrittman said:

But how? I don’t see anyone using scene nodes in their projects. People are using Xpresso right now, not scene nodes.

 

Just give us an xpresso update, instead of making people wait another 15 years for scene nodes to be completed. Quit stringing people along with this “new core” marketing fluff.

 

I must say I am surprised with that line of thought. Xpresso is old, single threaded, slow, can't generate objects, limited in a lot of aspects, doesn't even meet the basic requirements for modern node system and as such it simply can't be updated. Scene nodes on the other hand are not a simple node system slapped onto object as an expression, they are in fact new core development where nodes are integral building blocks. As far as learning part goes, all the concepts from Xpresso easily transfer to Scene nodes. When you say "complete" I am not sure what you mean. As of right now you can literally build objects, generators, deformers, effectors, fields, rigs, setups of any kind in Scene nodes, something which Xpresso can't nor was ever designed to do so. In Scene nodes. you can import any object from rest of Cinema into it such as particles, splines, meshes. Anything that is built with nodes can be exported also. Of course, there is always resistance to new stuff, but give nodes a try, they are vastly superior, simply incomparable to Xpresso. Nodes can "spin" millions of objects which was number one request not to mention that you ca achieve things with them which previously required python or plugins. Sure, it is still labeled as a tech demo and has limitations but what it can do greatly surpasses what it can't do right now.

 

@hikarubr

 

Xpresso or Scene Nodes (in fact all node systems do) use pretty much the same principle. You have nodes, connect wires, use data types and blocks of functionality - that is it! 
To someone who has experience with Xpresso, Scene nodes won't be a problem since there is no paradigm shift from user point of view. Also,I highly doubt MAXON will abandon modern, fast, highly flexible architecture anytime soon 😉

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@hobbyist, so perpetual users no longer get access to the asset/content browser? First Cineversity, now this. And for $3500… 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

@HrvojeJust because it’s possible to do these things, doesn’t mean people are actually adopting that workflow. A quick Google search for “rigging C4D scene nodes” returned pretty much nothing.

 

The learning curve for scene nodes is much higher and you need a lot more nodes to do the same tasks compared to xpresso. The ease of use just isn’t there.

 

Also from what I’ve been told, a separate expression system will eventually be developed for the new core. Which is essentially an xpresso 2.0? So scene nodes can’t really be compared to xpresso ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Like I said, maybe another 15 years, when all that stuff is completed. What about the people that are actually using the current system?

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19 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

Neutron or Scene nodes, are vastly superior to Xpresso in all aspects as of right now.  

 

Are they?... I just gave myself the simple task of making the X movement of a cube control the Y movement of a sphere.

 

I can do this with 'set driver' in 5 seconds.

I can do this manually in xpresso nodes in 20 seconds

So far I've spent far longer than I'd like to admit in scene nodes and haven't yet worked out how to do it.

 

I agree that xpresso is dead and shouldn't be further developed, but please, let's not pretend scene nodes is a clean upgrade from xpresso.

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