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R25 Expectations


Guest Igor

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57 minutes ago, johanal said:

 

 

 

I'd love to see Maxon finally buy Insydium and fold XP directly into C4D.   

 

I hope Maxon never buys Insydium. Insydium has always offered it's customers a decent price for what they provide. And to top that off, they usually have a 30% off sale in the spring and a 50% off on Black Friday. When has Maxon EVER offered a discount? Insydium is doing just fine on their own and I hope they stay that way. 

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yeah Insydium has done a great job over the past 3+ years raising the price each year, I think by roughly an extra $300 until just 2 weeks ago because of their new subscription model.   That was for the initial buy-in.   Luckily with "Fused" they lowered the price point by going straight subscription although I wonder if lack of sales in their other plugins resulted in creating a "Fused" bundle.  As with most subscriptions we'll see if they start to raise their prices again.

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I suspect they had a much easier time with xparticles compared to the rest given XP fills a huge gaping hole in c4d which no other plugin really does. Render engines, water and smoke sims however have much more competition and it will be more difficult to gain traction. By making a single bundle, people will be more likely to say to themselves "well, I've already got this smoke sim app anyway, maybe I'll just use that". Certainly Im not sure I'd bother with realflow or turbulence fd if I already had the fused package.

 

Cycles though will have a hard time regardless, there's just so many decent engines which are quite entrenched.

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54 minutes ago, johanal said:

yeah Insydium has done a great job over the past 3+ years raising the price each year, I think by roughly an extra $300 until just 2 weeks ago because of their new subscription model.   That was for the initial buy-in.   Luckily with "Fused" they lowered the price point by going straight subscription although I wonder if lack of sales in their other plugins resulted in creating a "Fused" bundle.  As with most subscriptions we'll see if they start to raise their prices again.

I'm sorry, but I just haven't noticed that increase in price. Perhaps because I buy during the sales. And I'm not sure Fuse is only subscription. Insydium shows a Fused Maintenance plan for $262.80 and an annual subscription for $508.08. Since I was on a perpetual X-particles maintenance plan before switching to Fused, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to purchase the Fused Maintenance Plan and still be perpetual. Maybe not, but its too late now. 

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5 hours ago, imashination said:

 

Houdini = $1995 / year rent

Maya = $1700 / year rent

Max = $1700 / year rent

Modo = $750 / year rent

C4D = $719 / year rent

 

So by other options you mean blender?

Most of the packages above have an indie version that is about 50% less expensive than C4D. 

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1 hour ago, srek said:

 

I stand corrected, but I'm curious. This doesn't look like you're offering any discount to existing customers, only new licenses. So if I'm subscription holder, I wouldn't get the discount. 

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19 minutes ago, Unstable said:

I'm sorry, but I just haven't noticed that increase in price. Perhaps because I buy during the sales. And I'm not sure Fuse is only subscription. Insydium shows a Fused Maintenance plan for $262.80 and an annual subscription for $508.08. Since I was on a perpetual X-particles maintenance plan before switching to Fused, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to purchase the Fused Maintenance Plan and still be perpetual. Maybe not, but its too late now. 

What is buried in the Insydium fused announcement is that ONLY XP will be remaining perpetual in the new Fused plan.  New plugins, like Meshform and Terraform, and Cycles 4D will go to subscription.  Cycles 4D perpetual licenses are no longer being sold.  If you have Cycles 4D now under maintenance then you can still get perpetual updates through the end of your original Cycles maintenance agreement. 

 

Redshift is also no longer perpetual....

 

So this is what would be a HUGE surprise for me with R25:

  1. Maxon offers indie licensing.  
  2. R25 perpetual upgrades are still being offered.  Yes...I would be more surprised if C4D stayed perpetual with R25. Sorry...but for me it is only a matter of time.  If they can make that announcement for Redshift, then C4D cannot be far behind.

Now, here is the big question:  Will Maxon drop the price of its Redshift/C4D subscription bundle to soothe the crowd of removing C4D perpetual licensing?  Would you jump on the C4D subscription if you knew it came with Redshift at the same price?  I bring this up because I just find it funny that in June Maxon offers a 30% sale for a Redshift and C4D bundle.  30% off that bundled price drops the price to only $2 less each month than just a C4D subscription. 

 

Hmmm....where they possibly testing the market demand  on now including Redshift with the C4D subscription at the same cost of 59.91/month?

 

Just a thought.

 

In any case, I find myself more interested in Blender 3.0 than C4D R25 given my fears that perpetual licensing is coming to end.  Kind of sad statement of affairs on where my head is at with Cinema 4D after 16 years of using the program.

 

Dave

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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18 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

What is buried in the Insydium fused announcement is that ONLY XP will be remaining perpetual in the new Fused plan.  New plugins, like Meshform and Terraform, and Cycles 4D will go to subscription.  Cycles 4D perpetual licenses are no longer being sold.  If you have Cycles 4D now under maintenance then you can still get perpetual updates through the end of your original Cycles maintenance agreement. 

 

Redshift is also no longer perpetual....

 

So this is what would be a HUGE surprise for me with R25:

  1. Maxon offers indie licensing.  
  2. R25 perpetual upgrades are still being offered.  Yes...I would be more surprised if C4D stayed perpetual with R25. Sorry...but for me it is only a matter of time.  If they can make that announcement for Redshift, then C4D cannot be far behind.

Now, here is the big question:  Will Maxon drop the price of its Redshift/C4D subscription bundle to soothe the crowd of removing C4D perpetual licensing?  Would you jump on the C4D subscription if you knew it came with Redshift at the same price?  I bring this up because I just find it funny that in June Maxon offers a 30% sale for a Redshift and C4D bundle.  30% off that bundled price drops the price to only $2 less each month than just a C4D subscription. 

 

Hmmm....where they possibly testing the market demand  on now including Redshift with the C4D subscription at the same cost of 59.91/month?

 

Just a thought.

 

In any case, I find myself more interested in Blender 3.0 than C4D R25 given my fears that perpetual licensing is coming to end.  Kind of sad statement of affairs on where my head is at with Cinema 4D after 16 years of using the program.

 

Dave

 

 

I understand your viewpoint and I agree with your assessment about the C4d perpetual licenses. I can't believe I completely missed the Maxon spring sale, but I don't know if I could have purchased the next subscription at 30% off or not. Guess I'll have to wait until next year to find out.

 

Subscriptions are made for big companies, not for small sole proprietorships or hobbyists. It also makes sense for Maxon. The big company subscription holders have to renew their subscriptions, even if they don't like the features add by Maxon because they're tied to the software. I think most big companies require a few years to change over to another package, so as long as Maxon delivers every other year or every 3rd year, they probably won't lose their big customers. It would still be nice if Maxon had an Indie license for C4d and Redshift for those small companies and hobbyists that have been loyal over the years. 

 

I used to really be against subscriptions because I'm a hobbyist as I think you are. But I decided to get the C4d + Redshift subscription and move forward. I figured when I get tired of 3d, I'll be done with it and won't need to tinker. If I have an uncontrollable urge to do so, then I'll pull out R20 or Lightwave 11 and scratch the itch. But for now, I'll just keep plugging away until I run out of money (can't take it with you) or I get sick of 3d. 

 

 

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As I mentioned in my post I am tempted to purchase Maya indie for $280 a year or Blender. I would also donate to the Blender development and Blender Cloud a few hundred dollars a year if I go that route. The indie prices offered by Sidefx and Autodesk are in my budget as a hobbyist/freelancer making under $100k per year. 

 

I purchased c4d studio R17 when it came out and have kept my MSA going every year up until R21. At the time my MSA was $640 a year which I agreed to pay. Plus I had access to Cineversity. Unfortunately the price of the MSA increased a few years later but I kept paying. So I have spent quite allot of money on cinema  over the years plus plugins like x-particles and training. I have no issue paying for software if it makes sense.

 
But my plan now is to either try to upgrade from R21 to R23 for I believer $999. Or wait until R24 is released and upgrade for who knows how much since price has not been announced, nor do we know if there will be a perpetual R24 release. 

 

Or stay with R21 and get a subscription every year or so util my license of R21 gets so outdated that I never open it and either stick with a subscription forever or bail.

 

Or dedicate my time to learning a program with an indie license I can afford or blender. What I would really like to see is a Maxon indie license. 

 

 

 

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What I miss the most from Maxon are the big fresh ideas like they had back in the days with Bodypaint and Mograph. Both feature sets were really unique in the 3D world when released. But for a decade now Maxon is just playing catch up with other software concepts.

 

For example I hoped they would jump on every fast rendering technology on the horizon like gpu rendering was 7-8 years ago because for the basic C4D artist who is a designer or artist in archviz, product viz and motion design fast rendering is so essential. I thought C4D would be the first realtime renderer in the offline rendering market becasue it would have made so much sense. But sadly the opposite happened. Completely lost track of rendering.

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