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R25 Expectations


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Just now, kbar said:

 I didn't even know that existed. Thanks.

I feel you. I've been planning to do a quick tutorial video about forums as its really have some nice features which many are not aware of, but really makes forum experience much better. Biggest reason why is cuz there are few more things to tweak before I do that. But it will come! :cowboypistol:

U-Render Quality Assurance Specialist | Core4D Contributions

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5 hours ago, Igor said:

This is the type of content I am working on at the moment, but its slow as I cant commint that much to it. I have create two new pages from which one will be like a Wiki page and one about all the Plugins. For now this is hidden as I have a lot of things to do to make this happen, but I hope to finish this until September.

 

Here is a glimpse of it:
image.png

 

 

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Also those documents will be linked here so it easy to land on the specific topic. So every tab will have dedicated link to the topic.

 

image.png

 

It will be fast and easy to search as this will be its own database. So search engine will not search whole forum but just this part of it. Which is neat.

 

if anyone is interested to help me out with this, please let me know, that way we will be able to finish it faster.

Brilliant! Looking forward to trying it. 

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On 7/4/2021 at 3:48 PM, srek said:

No, they are not. There are similarities, but the differences are fundamental. Xpresso adjusts the parameters of objects in an existing scene graph, scene nodes define the scene graph itself. Where it is easy to reference the same object multiple times in Xpresso, this just doesn’t work in scene nodes since you do not work with references, but the scene graph elements themself. Scene Nodes are NOT an expression system.

 

 Exactly. They are different things. I don't see how one could say that the nodes can replace Xpresso. They simply can't. Not in the current implementation at least.
Their purpose is even different. Only the fact that you import objects as "legacy" into the nodes is a pretty big tell that they simply serve different purposes.

And what about user data for example? I see no way of using that with nodes. A big part of Xpresso is how you can create user data to control paramaters of objects, deformers and pretty much everything in the scene. No such thing with nodes.

Nodes are just not a replacement for Xpresso, and no, you can't just move to nodes. It's not about nodes being "new". It's about basic functionality.

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6 hours ago, filipstamate said:

Exactly. They are different things. I don't see how one could say that the nodes can replace Xpresso. They simply can't. Not in the current implementation at least.

 

There's definitely tons of functionality missing until Scene Nodes are usable in a way that is equivalent to the current scene objects (including XPresso). Though, I can see the functional idea behind it. The big question marks come with usability, which involves the GUI and the legacy Object Manager support. I am not yet sure how the end product will look like.

But as they said, Scene Nodes are a tech demo and may be for some time to come.

16 hours ago, Igor said:

This is the type of content I am working on at the moment, but its slow as I cant commint that much to it. I have create two new pages from which one will be like a Wiki page and one about all the Plugins. For now this is hidden as I have a lot of things to do to make this happen, but I hope to finish this until September.

 

Here is a glimpse of it: (...)
 

 

This looks definitely promising!

 

(is it possible to switch off the merging of posts? This is irritating if one responds to totally different people about totally different trains of thought...)

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Yeah, by importing a "legacy" or "classic" object into it.

And such a "classic" object can only have outputs as far as I can tell, so you can't affect its parameters with other nodes.

 

Oh yeah, and think about rigging. Imagine rigging without XPresso. Even the premade rigs make heavy use of XPresso. But then you have people from Maxon telling you how you can just dump XPresso and move to nodes seamlessly, and the only reason you don't do it is because you're dumb and don't want to use new things. Amazing.

 

Just like how they keep saying that people should use the new node materials for Redshift even though they lack functionality that is present in the Xpresso based materials.

Is the black materials issue when doing an animation preview fixed in S24 at least? An issue that made node materials completely useless for anyone doing any kind of animation and was (I wouldn't be surprised if still is) present for several versions C4D while they kept telling people to use the node materials. Makes you wonder if they even know how people use their software.

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But a hybrid system is not a replacement for Xpresso. That's my point. People asking for XPresso improvements have been told in this thread that there's no need for them when you can just use nodes instead. Like there's literally no functional difference. 

 

And what's even the point of using Scene Nodes if you need to have a hybrid system? Sure, if you need something that Scene Nodes offer, like creating geometry, but otherwise is just jumping through hoops to reproduce Xpresso functionality into Scene Nodes and use Xpresso when you can't. Might as well just stick to Xpresso.

 

So, yeah, unless they can implement everything you can do with Xpresso in Scene Nodes, it would be nice if there were at least some QoL improvements to XPresso. But obviously they don't have any intention to do that and just want to motivate it by trying to make people believe that Scene Nodes is a replacement.

 

I don't think it's outlandish to ask for XPresso improvements if their intention is to keep it and have it usable together with the Scene Nodes.

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5 minutes ago, jackTheStorm said:

ok, with any ignoring of scene nodes from users, maxon simply will drop scene nodes as prorender and etc. for nextgen versions - lack of interest

 

 

Not gonna happen mate. It will replace old object system and once that mature enough you will start too see logic behind all the changes which are at this point necessary as you cant do much with the old system especially when compared to Houdini. 
 

4 hours ago, Cairyn said:

(is it possible to switch off the merging of posts? This is irritating if one responds to totally different people about totally different trains of thought...)

Yes it is. Posts will merge if you make a posts in 5min range simpy to avoid spamming of posts. Thats why you have tagging and quoting enabled. :cowboypistol:

U-Render Quality Assurance Specialist | Core4D Contributions

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from my side, maxon has bad project manager for core/general of c4d. Maybe she/he is not designer in past. Simply marketing manager, with bad understang of agile

 

5 minutes ago, Igor said:

Not gonna happen mate. It will replace old object system and once that mature enough you will start too see logic behind all the changes which are at this point necessary as you cant do much with the old system especially when compared to Houdini. 

🙂 I do not want to use reference model as Hou. That's why i wrote about hybrids.

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@filipstamate i think people from maxon were trying to say is that in the future, scene nodes WILL have all the functionality xpresso has, and therefor chose to not put any more effort into xpresso. to me it makes sense, and i can totally see how scene nodes can make xpresso obsolete, but the question just is "how long will it take to get there?". and i'm saying that as someone who uses xpresso heavily on a daily basis.

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