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Redshift moving to Subscription Only --


DasFrodo

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Well, just got a Mail. Redshift will be Subscription only after the 30th of August. Time to get a maintenance refresh and see what happens in the future.

 

Knowing how it's been priced so far together with C4D I have no hope for the future, honestly. 

 

RIP

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Well...we all new that this would happen someday, but I just got the following email from Maxon:

 

image.png.b05c3388ed6aacb49120980cca59f0ab.png

 

So not sure if this means that my current perpetual license (including any upgrades until my maintenance plan runs out) will also shift to subscription only.  

 

Is this a precursor to Cinema 4D also moving to subscription only?  Only time will tell.  If so, then the countdown to full Blender mode has begun.  Why? Well, the industry has shown that all subscriptions reach a point when you are just paying year-after-year to use the same old software with the same old and unfixed issues.  We've seen that in Adobe products (especially Premier), in Autodesk products (Max) and even in Microsoft products.  In short, all forward progress slows down considerably once everyone is locked into "pay-to-use" rather than "pay-to-upgrade" .   This is especially true for mature industries and DCC is now a very mature industry. 

 

Dave

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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  • DasFrodo changed the title to Redshift will be Subscription only after the 30th of August

Well what can I say.  Looks like my current  R20 with Vray and Redshift perpetual has some extra value when its Subs or nothing. 

 

Moving forward, Autodesk don't look such a bad deal for indie licence.

 

Dan

 ArtStation    Website 

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Subscriptions have ruined everything. If you don't own your software, you don't own the projects you make with it either. This has more or less ruined the enjoyment I used to get just messing around with the software, exploring, and having fun. 

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@3D-PangelWe had the same idea at pretty much the same time 😄 merged the topics.

 

7 minutes ago, MJV said:

Subscriptions have ruined everything. If you don't own your software, you don't own the projects you make with it either. This has more or less ruined the enjoyment I used to get just messing around with the software, exploring, and having fun. 

Yeah. I'm done with the shenanigans. Currently learning Blender. I have a R21 perpetual still but this will just get older and older... and for my hobby needs Blender has everything I need. At least as far as I can tell for now.

 

1 hour ago, Rectro said:

Well what can I say.  Looks like my current  R20 with Vray and Redshift perpetual has some extra value when its Subs or nothing. 

 

Moving forward, Autodesk don't look such a bad deal for indie licence.

 

Dan

If you mean Maya then yeah, go ahead. If you're thinking about 3DS Max, no. Just no.

 

Makes you think how long it's going to take until the C4D Perpetual vanishes as well. Although I don't think anybody seriously considers this with 3x the price of a yearly subscription.

 

"But guys, we still have perpetuals, just like you wanted!" Yeah, right.

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I just love the spin they put in the letter as to why they moved to subscription only --- it is because given all the apps they need to support, it is imperative to Maxon that their users always run with the latest version.

 

Oh...how condescending!!!

 

Us poor stupid users won't be able to make the decision to upgrade for ourselves or we are too technically "unenlightened" to realize all the great and wonderful benefits that are to be had with the latest version.  Really, this is for our own good. 

 

Well,  you can't feed us cow patties and tell us its fillet mignon.   

 

But some people happily go along with subscriptions...simply because they cannot see past the next day.   There is a rampant level of short sighted thinking going on in the world today.

 

Where is the incentive for development and innovation when every user is locked into a pay-to-use software?  There simply is none.  Upgrade programs on perpetual licenses gave the user a choice - some which people have made on this forum.  Not happy with the new release...not upgrading.  By not upgrading, that was incentive for Maxon to continually provide new features with each release that will attract both old and new users.  But with subscription, that motivation drops down to attracting new users only...and you can do that with the core features of the software rather than the newer refinements only seasoned users would appreciated.    So subscriptions kill the need or desire for innovation and/or improvements to the software that only long-time users will enjoy.  And you are seeing that today as I mentioned in my first post.

 

Software companies are becoming like fixed market monopolies.  If you want to keep using it, you have to keep paying.  Sure you are getting the "full" software at a cheap subscription price...but not really.  That is a price you are going to pay every year until you decide to switch to something else.  And when you do, it all ends.  No access to anything you have created or purchased that needs the software to run (plugins, models, scripts, libraries, etc).

 

In light of this news, all I can say is thank you Blender and I am looking forward to 3.0.

 

Dave

 

P.S. In hind sight, switching from C4D Cafe (a C4D only) to Core4D (slowly becoming a C4D, Houdini and Blender site) was probably a brilliant move.

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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1 minute ago, 3D-Pangel said:

I just love the spin they put in the letter as to why they moved to subscription only --- it is because given all the apps they need to support, it is imperative to Maxon that their users always run with the latest version.

 

Yeah, I'm still surprised companies think anybody buys this marketing garbage talk. Question is: do some people actually buy it, or do companies THINK people buy it but instead users just HAVE to eat this stuff up because they need their software?

 

3 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

But some people happily go along with subscriptions...simply because they cannot see past the next day.   There is a rampant level of short sighted thinking going on in the world today.

I'd argue that most people go along with it because they have to. If your livelyhood depends on a specific software you simply cannot afford spending time on something different to get as proficient at it. I understand it, completely.

 

4 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Software companies are becoming like fixed market monopolies.  If you want to keep using it, you have to keep paying.

Well, it obviously works. We can thank Adobe for getting this subscription garbage to mainstream. If only companies AT LEAST did subs rent to own but nooo. Rather blackmail your users "either you pay or you get nothing, good day sir".

Visit my Portfolio on Artstation.com & Follow me on Instagram

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  • Customer

Good luck to them. I doubt hobbyists are the target market for Maxon anyway.

Blender is the only option available now.

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I love Redshift; I like the dev-team's transparency and openness. They should have my money -- it's a good product with good support. 

 

But -- and this is crucial -- I want to pay on my terms, and I want to be able to access my stuff at all times. An ongoing subscription feels just extortionate. 

 

It's so easy to solve everything -- let me rent the software; if it's long enough, let me exit my subscription with a perpetual license (that no longer gets updates). 

It should be the same for C4D (and Adobe and all the likes).

They way it is -- just robbers sitting on my files. 

The way it coud be: A fair model that respects my investments and honors me as a customer. 

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1 minute ago, keppn said:

I love Redshift; I like the dev-team's transparency and openness. They should have my money -- it's a good product with good support. 

 

But -- and this is crucial -- I want to pay on my terms, and I want to be able to access my stuff at all times. An ongoing subscription feels just extortionate. 

 

It's so easy to solve everything -- let me rent the software; if it's long enough, let me exit my subscription with a perpetual license (that no longer gets updates). 

It should be the same for C4D (and Adobe and all the likes).

They way it is -- just robbers sitting on my files. 

The way it coud be: A fair model that respects my investments and honors me as a customer. 

 

Problem with this model is that people would just get a single month and then ditch out, keeping their expensive render engine forever.

A solution to this is what Allegorithmic (Substance Suite) did... until they got bought by Adobe. They had a "rent to own" model, meaning if you kept paying the monthly subscription for a year without break you would get a perpetual at the end of it with the current version at the time. It was an awesome model but sadly it ended as well, of course.

Visit my Portfolio on Artstation.com & Follow me on Instagram

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13 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Is this a precursor to Cinema 4D also moving to subscription only? 

 

Without a doubt in my mind: absolutely.

 

This and previous actions on the part of Maxon seem to come straight out of Adobe's play book (which is probably why ex-Adobe management was hired to assist Maxon in this process):

 

First, introduce the rental model but keep the perpetual license, and make certain both are initially presented as equal alternatives. This is to ensure to avoid a user uprising. Sooth any nay-sayer users, but never allow anyone in your organization to confirm that your end goal is rental only.

Present it as "freedom of choice", or along similar lines.

 

Next, with each new release clearly present the rental version as the ever more affordable and attractive alternative. Incrementally reduce exposure of the perpetual license on the website in favour of the rental option(s) and reduce access to it. Keep touting the advantages for the user of rental rather than perpetual. The goal here is to slowly and seamlessly prime and groom the larger user base to accept rental as the preferred option rather than perpetual licenses. Provide extra perks for users who rent your software. Reduce perks and updates for perpetual users.

 

And at no time mention the end goal. Keep users in the dark. "Listen" to your users by providing additional rental options. Cater towards companies and small/medium sized businesses (which generally really like rental options due to fiscal benefits).

 

It is important to continuously stress the attractiveness of rental licenses, while adding more and more to the unattractive qualities of the perpetual license. Convince as many existing perpetual users to make the switch to rental. And very important here is the use of language: instead of "rent" rather use "subscribe", or even better: allow for no distinction: "buy" or "purchase". (The younger generation of users is no longer quite so aware of the distinction between renting software and purchasing software anyway. This is great for software companies.)

 

In the final stages before ending access to new perpetual licenses it is necessary to complicate the process of updating existing perpetual licensed versions as much as is possible. At the same time,  it is expected that a segment of older loyal perpetual users will never accept rental licenses. This won't matter, since the less expensive rental model probably already increased revenue by a large margin.

 

It is at this time that the company will release statements about how for the sake of continued development, the benefit of improved features of the software, and the company itself that perpetual licenses be discontinued. "if it's good for you, it's good for the company, and vice versa". Along those lines.

 

The company may opt to keep the peace, allow this user group access to a perpetual license for the time being, but no new perpetual licenses will be available. Drastically increase update pricing, and after a few releases stop perpetual updates entirely. Or be more cold-hearted, and disallow perpetual users to update their licenses. After all, by this time that group of users is probably reduced to a small minority.

 

Happy company! And accepting users (for the most part).

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