Jump to content

Cinema R25 Release


Guest Igor

Recommended Posts

I think that even if R25 would have been packed with the best features and overhauls of old features people still would be bewildered why a UI change like this was necessary. But with it being the main feature the new UI can be as good as it wants to be the perception that maxon doesn't listen to its customers that didn't complain about the UI but about many other things for years persists. some might get the impression, that the UI change was inflated to at least get one major feature into the release. the (maybe necessary) change of the user interface mechanics might have been better received if the old icons where used. Then people would get the chance to at least visually find their way into the new interface.

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Jops said:

I think that even if R25 would have been packed with the best features and overhauls of old features people still would be bewildered..

The main frustration stems from us old-timers not wanting to rent software, and thereby throw money out of the window.
Then, having a release with almost no real new features, except a GUI nobody asked for, there you have it.

Give us a new features packed perpetual version with the same benefits that subscribers get - and yes, I (we) would certainly be willing to approach the new GUI with a friendlier attitude.
-Ingvar      

Link to comment

Oh, YouTube... home of puppy kickers and verbal seal clubbers everywhere... I'm afraid YouTube comments have long since stopped being useful in any way, and it's better to not read them, or read them with a thick skin and be amused.

 

Anyway. It is funny how many people say "it's like Blender now" and mean it in a negative way, when actually Blender's interface has so much improved from the screaming catastrophe that it was pre-2.80. There are still quirks like "storing the interface with the scene", and the icon versions of tools sometimes work differently from the shortcut versions, and the armatures/bones still have those un-labeled grouping boxes that cause so much guesswork or little yellow post-its on the screen frame. But things are improving. (Cinema with its flexible configurable user interface is still miles ahead, as I liked to modify my GUI extensively.)

 

Naturally, some of the fury is the fault of the novelty videos. Which go on and on and on about interface changes, and sometimes ignore actual functional additions. I watched the xxxxxxx(name deleted as I don't want to blame the person) video, and it was just about the GUI for half of the time (including moments of "looky that single icon is now HERE" when I wanted to fast forward in desperation) when there were actually much more important things to talk about (but I guess new Scene Nodes are too technical for presentation videos?). I gather there are more interesting presentations out there, but after skipping through, ultimately I resorted to just reading the change lists.

 

Not saying that this is an exciting release (it isn't, but I might have updated to get the S24 changes), but my reason for not updating is the lack of a competitive Perpetual renderer, not the content of the R25, or any fault with the GUI (which I would need to check out extensively to get a feel for it).

Link to comment
2 hours ago, srek said:

I was following this live, but honestly, these knee jerk reactions tend to be over the top, in both directions. From my experience it takes a few weeks until people actualy had a chance to get their hands on the new version and functions and actually gave it a good try. I have read it a couple of times on this forum as well "This is (fantastic/rubbish) ... maybe i can try it in a few days". That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal. I get it, the first contact is often emotional, but the important part is to actually double check. Given the limited ressources we have, we try to not do things that we do not see as ultimately useful and better. Of course we make  mistakes, thats why we have betatesters to tell us so early on (sometimes we even listen 😉 ), and then we watch the reactions of our users, sometimes hands on like here on this forum. We get a lot of direct feedback from studios and it is interesting to see how divergent from public feedback that can be. Pretty often the topics that come up are quite different from what comes up here.

Man, it is amazing how much you dance around a situation, downplaying and diminishing at every turn any possible negative feedback people can have. 
It will never be a "oh, yeah, there is this negative feedback here, and this amount of dislikes.. maybe we should understand why this is happening"
No, it is always:
"People complaining are biased and small numbers  - irrelevant to us"
"People always complain, but they like it afterwards (aka, the typical, we know what is best for you, better than you do)"
"We listen to very positive feedback from studios ( a subtle way to point once again, that normal customers/hobbysts are irrelevant to Maxon) thus, everything is fine to whom really matters" 

Is it really, absolutely impossible for you to just.. for a few seconds, acknowledge and understand why this update was disappointing for a lot of people? 
Or you will constantly parade against customers who are unhappy with certain aspects, trying as best as you can to belittle our feedbacks? 

Link to comment
44 minutes ago, FLima said:

...positive feedback from studios ( a subtle way to point once again, that normal customers/hobbysts are irrelevant...

 

What are the studio customers, then? Abnomal customers?

 

I didn't know that C4D users had to be divided into normal and not normal. This is a first.

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, BoganTW said:

 

What are the studio customers, then? Abnomal customers?

 

I didn't know that C4D users had to be divided into normal and not normal. This is a first.

I know that you are not agreeing with me in any way, but you are right about this. 
C4D users shouldnt be divided as such. We are all users of the same software. 
Obviously, money will speak louder, and if a lot of the studios complained about the same thing, Maxon would stop all productions and go to whatever direction the studios demanded. It is just how things are, Im not a hypocrite, as I also make my decisions month to month as such, sometimes not taking a little project, and concentrating on bigger ones with bigger budgets.

But I dont know, in a perfect world, our feedbacks, us the the single users/hobbysts/etc.. , positive or negative, could be taken into account somehow.
And not just belittled at every turn. 

Im honestly not asking much...for example, I am now working on a commercial project involving character animation (not my short film). And the timeline/viewport performance is absurd...  this has been discussed many times already, and I dont even want to get into the subscription debacle.. but this and other major issues the software still has...I just wanted this to be fixed... you know?  I realise you are probably consider this as a constant "whining", but it is a software I love using, and at my age..  I will never reach the same fluency and knowledge at any other software as much as I have with C4D. So yeah..  it kinda sucks..

Link to comment
1 hour ago, FLima said:

Man, it is amazing how much you dance around a situation, downplaying and diminishing at every turn any possible negative feedback people can have. 
It will never be a "oh, yeah, there is this negative feedback here, and this amount of dislikes.. maybe we should understand why this is happening"
No, it is always:
"People complaining are biased and small numbers  - irrelevant to us"
"People always complain, but they like it afterwards (aka, the typical, we know what is best for you, better than you do)"
"We listen to very positive feedback from studios ( a subtle way to point once again, that normal customers/hobbysts are irrelevant to Maxon) thus, everything is fine to whom really matters" 

Is it really, absolutely impossible for you to just.. for a few seconds, acknowledge and understand why this update was disappointing for a lot of people? 
Or you will constantly parade against customers who are unhappy with certain aspects, trying as best as you can to belittle our feedbacks? 

You are right, the lack of acknowledgement is fueling this discussion. But it hardly can be expected from srek to admit a mistake of the company. That would be the job of the CEO. But we will not see that.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, FLima said:

Man, it is amazing how much you dance around a situation, downplaying and diminishing at every turn any possible negative feedback people can have. 
It will never be a "oh, yeah, there is this negative feedback here, and this amount of dislikes.. maybe we should understand why this is happening"
No, it is always:
"People complaining are biased and small numbers  - irrelevant to us"
"People always complain, but they like it afterwards (aka, the typical, we know what is best for you, better than you do)"
"We listen to very positive feedback from studios ( a subtle way to point once again, that normal customers/hobbysts are irrelevant to Maxon) thus, everything is fine to whom really matters" 

Is it really, absolutely impossible for you to just.. for a few seconds, acknowledge and understand why this update was disappointing for a lot of people? 
Or you will constantly parade against customers who are unhappy with certain aspects, trying as best as you can to belittle our feedbacks? 

Is it so outlandish to think that the feedback here might really be only a small part of the whole and not a fully representative one?
You put one frame around this, i see a different one. I do not question the feedback coming from here at all, what i question is the relative importance you seem to give to it.
If you use quotes, please actually do quote.
I did not say or imply that feedback from small numbers of users is irrelevant, on the contrary, there were many situations in the past where a single users feedback turned things into a very different direction than initially planned.
Also i did not say that we only get very positive feedback from other sources like studios, it is very different feedback though, positive as well as negative.
I also did not say that everyone likes it after a while, i wrote, and you can read my initial unedited statement again, that opinions always adjust after actually trying.
To quote mself "That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal."

You expect me and others to listen to you, so please do me the curtesy to also try to read and understand what i write.

Link to comment

I think the interface change is a purely commercial story. After the redesign, you can re-release all training materials for a fee and earn money on this. "Studying the new cinema interface", "Modeling in a new interface", "Motion graphics in R25". Goldmine. You do not think about users, but only how to make more money without making a lot of effort.

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Madesto said:

I think the interface change is a purely commercial story. After the redesign, you can re-release all training materials for a fee and earn money on this. "Studying the new cinema interface", "Modeling in a new interface", "Motion graphics in R25". Goldmine. You do not think about users, but only how to make more money without making a lot of effort.

 

Now that is pretty much ridiculous, as Cineversity is for subscribers only and has no additional fee (and there is no way for non-subscribers to join). So, that training material in the worst case becomes irrelevant or has to be redone (without making additional money from it, but causing cost). And training videos from other vendors don't bring Maxon any money. And in-person trainings will use the newest interface anyway. Not to mention that you don't really need a special training video; you can just watch the R25 release videos. And if you already did a training in C4D, you will hardly buy another just because of some GUI changes. Come on.

Link to comment
On 9/21/2021 at 9:02 AM, srek said:

I get the impression that there is a certain bias involved here. The number of users on this forum, is a small fraction of all Cinema 4D users, additonally users that see certain things as problematic are more likely to share their experience publically, leading to a heavy bias that might give an impression of the over all acceptance that does not match the actual degree.

Let us play the quote game then @srek
After all these discourse you seem to be taking, now you are trying to portray that somehow, I am not understanding what you are saying, or that you are not trying to belittle the negative feedback from people here in this forum. My impression and general feeling about your communication is not coming out of the blue, or that I am not actually understanding things. And I am pretty sure I am not alone in this feeling.

We dont have a "bias" as you put it because there are certain aspects that we are not happy with, specially within the last update.
As someone pointed out before, you are a Maxon guy, so you obviously cant publicly acknowledge or even try to understand where the frustration is coming from.
I get it.

But you dont need to go the extra mile and work hard on diminishing people's negative feedbacks, giving us the impression that... us, the people who has specific problems with C4D right now, are not representative of the vaste majority of users, because we are biased and in small numbers. 

Link to comment
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • LATEST ACTIVITIES

    1. 32

      Maxon shooting themselves in the foot: Educational Licenses Suspended.

    2. 1

      CORE 4D Interviews - Paul Babb

    3. 1

      CORE 4D Interviews - Paul Babb

    4. 0

      Maxon licence managment

    5. 38

      Looking forward to the next C4D release

×
×
  • Create New...

Copyright Core 4D © 2023 Powered by Invision Community