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Cinema R25 Release


Guest Igor

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26 minutes ago, Cairyn said:

 

Now that is pretty much ridiculous, as Cineversity is for subscribers only and has no additional fee (and there is no way for non-subscribers to join). So, that training material in the worst case becomes irrelevant or has to be redone (without making additional money from it, but causing cost). And training videos from other vendors don't bring Maxon any money. And in-person trainings will use the newest interface anyway. Not to mention that you don't really need a special training video; you can just watch the R25 release videos. And if you already did a training in C4D, you will hardly buy another just because of some GUI changes. Come on.


Are you sure that cinevercity will be updated?, With the new Maxon policy, I'm not. Old Cinema 4d tutorials for new users will not work. And lessons on R25 can be launched on a new, paid site. Simple business model.

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6 minutes ago, FLima said:


But you dont need to go the extra mile and work hard on diminishing people's negative feedbacks, giving us the impression that... us, the people who has specific problems with C4D right now, are not representative of the vaste majority of users, because we are biased and in small numbers. 

You are right, my feedback can be interpreted that way and that was not my intention, sorry. The fact alone that several of Maxon do contribute here should tell everyone that we really do care about the feedback given.

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To summarize the general feeling I have, I will use the following analogy: 

You have a nice car. You love your car, but there is a problem with the engine, a big one, that cuts the performance of the car down by 50%.
You decide to bring it to a mechanic. 
You explain the problem, and after a few minutes, the mechanic says: 
"Ah ok, I understood..  well, let me give you a new coat of paint on your car!" 
You explain that the coat in paint is nice and all, but you actually need a fix on the engine, it is very important to you
The mechanic nods, and says "well, you need to take the car out and see how this paint will perform on a rainy day" 
You repeat several times that the new paint is cool, but you need a engine fix.
The mechanic then replies "Well, I think what you are saying is being blown out of proportion... dont worry, I am listening to your issues, but please, try this new car paint first" 

This is what it feels when I am trying to explain why this last update was so abysmal. 
There is nothing wrong with the new interface, and I am sure people are loving it, maybe I will love it too once I start using it.
But there is a long list of issues the software needed to fix first, things that affects directly our productivity. 
The subscription conversation keeps coming back again and again, because there are this shortcomings that keeps being ignored, while we are being offered gimmick things that we dont really need. If the company opened the communication, honestly, giving us at least a bit of a roadmap, and not just PR friendly responses or reducing the importance of our feedback... or.. the software improved with key essential things that changes our workflow for the better (ie: Fields) you can bet the amount of complaints about the subscription method would drop dramaticaly. 

But yeah, Im kinda done with this thread, because I realised there isnt going to be a mutual understanding. 
We just have to accept things will not change, and use our energy on different things.  

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30 minutes ago, Madesto said:


Are you sure that cinevercity will be updated?, With the new Maxon policy, I'm not. Old Cinema 4d tutorials for new users will not work. And lessons on R25 can be launched on a new, paid site. Simple business model.

 

I'm not the Kwisatz Haderach, I don't know what will be. But I can't see Maxon getting into the paid training business at the moment, and Cineversity is one of the Subscription benefits, so at least for the near future, I don't really see that changing. As for the far future: changing the UI now for a possible paysite that may or may not be would be a bit too speculative.

 

I see issues with Cineversity tutorials less because of changed icons or toolbars... but more because of really changed functionality; either modified or overridden or even removed. That makes some older Cineversity tutorials obsolete. (I don't know if Maxon has a strategy to remove or redo those obsolete tuts.) Remember that we already had a major icon overhaul, from the colorful Amiga-look ones to the later color-coded flat ones, and that did not really make every tut in existence useless. (But I admit that changes in the GUI do make following tuts difficult.)

 

Actually I'd prefer to criticise Maxon for what they do / have done, not for hypothetical stuff in the future. There is enough of that stuff to fill the thread.

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3 hours ago, FLima said:

Im honestly not asking much...for example, I am now working on a commercial project involving character animation (not my short film). And the timeline/viewport performance is absurd...

 

That's not being ignored. We've worked repeatedly to improve the timeline performance - there was a dramatic increase with R21. We worked to improve skin solver performance in R23. We improved the load times for large scenes in S24 SP1. Beyond that, much of the performance is related to C4D's object system and priorities - which is fundamentally why we've been working on the new Scene Nodes core for years. It's not an easy task, and it's not done yet. But timeline/viewport performance is very much a focus of our efforts.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Madesto said:

I think the interface change is a purely commercial story. After the redesign, you can re-release all training materials for a fee and earn money on this. "Studying the new cinema interface", "Modeling in a new interface", "Motion graphics in R25". Goldmine. You do not think about users, but only how to make more money without making a lot of effort.

 

Literally the opposite is true. Wrecking all the existing training was the single biggest reason going against the UI changes during development. But, in the end it was decided that a better layout where useful tools are more visible (left side) and objects are nearer the object manager (right side) would help C4D in the long term.

 

I'm not a fan of the top toolbar, but hey, 2 out of 3 isn't too bad.

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3 hours ago, Madesto said:

I think the interface change is a purely commercial story. After the redesign, you can re-release all training materials for a fee and earn money on this. "Studying the new cinema interface", "Modeling in a new interface", "Motion graphics in R25". Goldmine. You do not think about users, but only how to make more money without making a lot of effort.

This take is just rediculous. Please let's not let the thread careen into absurb conspiracy theorizing. 

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4 hours ago, Madesto said:


Are you sure that cinevercity will be updated?, With the new Maxon policy, I'm not. Old Cinema 4d tutorials for new users will not work. And lessons on R25 can be launched on a new, paid site. Simple business model.

Come on, its just an interface make over, you wanna know what tutorials wont work? deprecated stuff like COFFEE. 

 

You are seriously saying Maxon developers changed the UI to make more money out of tutorials? When they in fact had spent time and money on trainers explaining the new changes all over youtube and cineversity? And this is without taking into account countless of people who just do tutorials for free / views / follows and applauses all over the internet.

 

Good luck following mental ray tutorials, blender Internal, blender Game, houdini prism, softimage 3D, etc, etc, etc, and please remember, without makeovers or discarding stuff that does not work, Cinema 4D would still look like this:

 

 

accbc52da0313e60c8b49a83cca3b94b.png

R (1) copy.jpg

blender-script-regions-min.jpg

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2 hours ago, imashination said:

 

Literally the opposite is true. Wrecking all the existing training was the single biggest reason going against the UI changes during development. But, in the end it was decided that a better layout where useful tools are more visible (left side) and objects are nearer the object manager (right side) would help C4D in the long term.

 

I'm not a fan of the top toolbar, but hey, 2 out of 3 isn't too bad.

Nobody talks about bad layout, everyone is unhappy with terrible icons.
On page 27 I have attached many screenshots of the comparison of old and new icons and explained why this is so bad, Maxon said nothing. Either a conspiracy theory or horrible unprofessionalism.

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1 hour ago, luchifer said:

Come on, its just an interface make over, you wanna know what tutorials wont work? deprecated stuff like COFFEE. 

 

You are seriously saying Maxon developers changed the UI to make more money out of tutorials? When they in fact had spent time and money on trainers explaining the new changes all over youtube and cineversity? And this is without taking into account countless of people who just do tutorials for free / views / follows and applauses all over the internet.

 

Good luck following mental ray tutorials, blender Internal, blender Game, houdini prism, softimage 3D, etc, etc, etc, and please remember, without makeovers or discarding stuff that does not work, Cinema 4D would still look like this:

 

 

accbc52da0313e60c8b49a83cca3b94b.png

 

 

I actually loved that interface, and kept it for several years after the new one replaced it. 😄

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5 minutes ago, MJV said:

I actually loved that interface, and kept it for several years after the new one replaced it. 😄

 

Interface was great, yes, but has a lot of limitations, if you used a lot of plugins and want to add them to the UI, you ended with a lot of icons on your customized screen space. Hopefully the new interface will address the issue with the dynamic menus, as it already the coordinates Tab, that I used once every month but was never sure where to put it on my custom UI.

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