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Cinema R25 Release


Igor

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I wouldn't mind a GUI change, if there was anything else in the update that I would find useful. But I won't call a GUI change "half of an update", which is apparently what it is. I am working with a customized multi-monitor outfit anyway, so all these placement changes and pop-up things do nothing for me. I have a working document-tabbing plugin already, and I am not crazy about the Blender-like layout buttons (as I have plenty of layouts; won't fit the line at all). All of this GUI stuff should have been an add-on for a rich update.

I don't see myself paying the Perpetual fee for this update, sorry. I would have liked some of the S24 stuff, but this here... nah.

 

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4 minutes ago, luchifer said:

Final note: I don't get the interface hate, because it does look cool and it has a ton of improvements for faster workflow, and while I dont like the snail speed of development, I do love they keep improving the interface and some everyday tools, but developers cant be blind, we customers pay a lot of money for new features and you guys are delivering faster shortcuts and faster menus, and small improvements, but not overall speed.

 

I don't think people are necessarily complaining about the interface. They are complaining about something that nobody asked for and getting almost nothing else.

2 minutes ago, MazurBr said:

DMcGavran's bosses at Adobe must be happy.

 

"Our spy completed his mission. He destroyed our main competitor in the Motion Graphics business! C4D is no more! Buahahahahaha!!! (evil anime laugh here)" 

 

Makes you think at this point, doesn't it? This borders on intent at this point.

 

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8 minutes ago, DasFrodo said:

Just a wild guess: Most of the dev team is working on the new core (still) to get it done fast, cause they're scared that people will leave (for a reason). So no new features until the "new" C4D is entirely done.

I really, really, really hope that's the case, and I hate that I can't be certain if this release is the result of what you're guessing, or if they've committed fully to the lackluster feature, stable income approach. I know this is an industry software package, so they can't reveal too much of what they're merely working on with no flashy showing off, but it would be much more reassuring to me if they went out and said "we're working on this and that, it's gonna take a while". That would probably cause an Osborne effect, though.

I suppose scene nodes are that thing, kind of, but outside of mograph (admittedly the thing C4D is known for) and generally abstract visuals, is there a major use for them?

 

The new interface is nice, and it's also optional (the layout at least, not the new icons), but as others mentioned, UI was the least of Cinema's problems. The only reason I haven't jumped over to Blender is the latter's intimidating interface and usability.

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worst release ever. There is not even one new function that is needed in the work. I was hoping for this release, but now I definitely decided not to renew my subscription and go to blender + houdini.

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6 minutes ago, MazurBr said:

The last really substantial Cinema4D release was R14. That was 9 years ago. From R15 to R20 (6 versions) we had the equivalent of maybe 2 full versions (if we compare with a full version of Maya, Bender, Houdini, etc...). The less we say about R21 to R25 the better.

this feels absolutely correct. R14 was great. R15–R20 less and less progress. Aren’t they using the “new core” argument for almost a decade now? I happily paid my MSA waiting patiently for this “new core” and the promised land that would follow. There must come a day when even the biggest fanboy realizes: there’s not much substance. Sure, the new core will come, but that doesn’t mean any of the improvements asked for for more than a decade will materialize anytime soon, if ever.

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15 minutes ago, Xeotroid said:

I suppose scene nodes are that thing, kind of, but outside of mograph (admittedly the thing C4D is known for) and generally abstract visuals, is there a major use for them?

 

 

I think the idea behind them is basically to be a user-friendly Houdini. Which would have huge implications for the software IMO. Especially if it starts to integrate into real time engines like HDA's can.  There is a reason Blender is also creating Geometry nodes. 

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5 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I think the idea behind them is basically to be a user-friendly Houdini.

 

I'm sure you're right. They've been moving in this direction for quite a while. The problem: If you need scene nodes, and are happy working with them, then you'll be happy with Houdini. So why wait for 'Houdini Light' (C4D), when you can get 'Houdini Max'?  If you're a solo freelancer it's cheaper (Indie), and if you're a bigger studio $5K is perfectly affordable.

 

If they continue on the current trajectory C4D is going to get crushed between Blender on one side and Houdini on the other.

 

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3 minutes ago, Cairyn said:

 

What, they broke the compatibility yet again? For what? The new GUI?

Yes, it seems so, at least Rocketlasso did mention that somewhere at the beginning of his "New in R25" video. His plugins already are compatible with R25. 

 

I haven't upgraded since R18, but I did try to stay in the loop, more or less. This seems like the weakest release in Maxon history. Also, the 3D Motion presentation (I only watched some of )the beginning of it)  seemed  oddly unprofessional, like they couldn't even spare the money for decent mics... 

 

So C4D now has a Blender skin (very convenient should I decide to go back to Cinema some day), the CV ArtSmart tools are no longer a plugin but have turned into a spline importer, and the Capsule received a massive update because they couldn't come up with yet more awesome Bevel options for MoText this year? 🙂 

 

Even if, for example, you find the (at this point completely unnecessary) changes to the UI useful and an improvement, I am wondering whether this, or any of the other new "features" justifies the price of an annual or monthly subscription, let alone the upgrade price for a perpetual licence. 

 

From a quick look at some other forums it seems Maxon is pretty much getting creamed for this release, and I guess they deserve it, too. 

 

Someone said that it would take another 3 to 4 years until the development with respect to Scene Nodes etc. would be completed. Considering the development speed at Maxon over the past 10 years or so, I think that is not an unrealistic estimate. Once again this year, it looks like they're declaring anything as a "feature" to bridge the years until the final, game-changing uber version will be unleashed on mankind and shake the very foundation of the 3D world. Few enough of us lived to see the day the core finally started getting rewritten. I am wondering how Maxon can afford to take that long. In this business, time is not your friend. If you take a look at how other applications have been progressing in all that time Maxon mostly delivered empty promises and sketchy releases, it'll be interesting to see how this will turn out for them, and if anyone will still care when that time finally comes. 

 

In any case, as things are now, I am not surprised that even people like Toby Pitman, the author of MILG11, which still is the best SDS training ever made, have recently made a complete switch to Blender, or went from publishing C4D tutorials on YouTube to releasing Blender videos instead, or are doing at least a mixture of both now. The writing seems to be all over the wall. 

 

To be honest, I'm a bit sad about how Cinema has turned out since R18, which I still like a lot. On the other hand, I don't feel like I made a bad decsion when I switched to Blender at the end of April this year. 

 

Cheers,

Wolf3D

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Well I guess I'll just stick with R23 until either (A)  a release comes that's truly worth upgrading to for little hobbyist me,  or (B)  until  R23 can't be launched anymore. Whether that's from an update to the licensing software denying you access to it or from the Doomsayers being true about C4D going under (For real and not just 'has become less used') - whenever or if either outcome actually happens  🤷‍♂️

 

In the meantime, I'll be using R23 for as long as I'm able to.  I don't want to have to think about the possibility of actually having to move to another program just yet with everything else going on on top of that 😞

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8 minutes ago, contrafibbularities said:

Yes, it seems so, at least Rocketlasso did mention that somewhere at the beginning of his "New in R25" video. His plugins already are compatible with R25. 

 

Quite sad. As a Perpetual user, I am not eligible to these alpha versions so I wasn't able to check this out.

 

Anyway, as I won't update to R25 and don't yet know whether I can get a Trial to test against (the EULA seems to indicate otherwise), I have removed CollieSymmetryHelper from Gumroad, as this was a C++ plugin. Seems my programming plans have finally met an end.

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6 hours ago, Mike A said:

 

I'm sure you're right. They've been moving in this direction for quite a while. The problem: If you need scene nodes, and are happy working with them, then you'll be happy with Houdini. So why wait for 'Houdini Light' (C4D), when you can get 'Houdini Max'?  If you're a solo freelancer it's cheaper (Indie), and if you're a bigger studio $5K is perfectly affordable.

 

If they continue on the current trajectory C4D is going to get crushed between Blender on one side and Houdini on the other.

 

Not necessarily.  I have worked in many studios that were unwilling to buy more than a handful of seats of H. It's also far harder to train up/find good Houdini artists. If Maxon takes their ease of use philosophy behind procedural node systems I think it could be a huge win. However, I do think your trajectory is correct, even if Maxon does everything right in the next few releases they could still be crushed between Blender and Houdini. IMO the only thing holding blender back right now is performance. 


I'm just looking for an update to C4D that's as well integrated as Blender + Eevee/Cycles. Doing lookdev and shader-fx in there is so smooth compared to janky ole C4D. They feel like they're from different eras in that regard.  

6 hours ago, contrafibbularities said:

In any case, as things are now, I am not surprised that even people like Toby Pitman, the author of MILG11, which still is the best SDS training ever made, have recently made a complete switch to Blender, or went from publishing C4D tutorials on YouTube to releasing Blender videos instead, or are doing at least a mixture of both now. The writing seems to be all over the wall. 

I wouldn't read to much into Toby Pitman leaving C4D. C4D was always a horrible modeling tool compared to the competition and it was amazing that he even stuck with C4D for so long.  C4D's power lies in other areas. 

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