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Cinema R25 Release


Guest Igor

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2 minutes ago, Icecaveman said:

Dave owes all of us an apology. Bigtime.

 

I get that you feel like that, and that would be something it would be more reasonable to say given that is your opinion.. But let's have no more comparing individuals to vermin please - if there are reasonable and legitimate things to say those arguments should stand on their own without needing to be personally insulting as well. 

 

CBR

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20 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

 

I get that you feel like that, and that would be something it would be more reasonable to say given that is your opinion.. But let's have no more comparing individuals to vermin please - if there are reasonable and legitimate things to say those arguments should stand on their own without needing to be personally insulting as well. 

 

CBR

 

Again: Tell me where I'm wrong. Forced Subscriptions is blood sucking. Dave was hired for his dark art skills in that arena.

 

Telling customers c4d doesn't include an honest renderer and must pay extra for the privilege of rendering their work? That's lamprey/leech territory.

 

Pitching a failing product that is dead-in-the-water with the promise of an "all-new-bright-and-shining-UI" that most users call a step backwards? That's tic, flea, bed bug feeding.

 

Can anyone...anyone tell me where I'm wrong?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Icecaveman said:

 

Again: Tell me where I'm wrong. Forced Subscriptions is blood sucking. Dave was hired for his dark art skills in that arena.

 

Telling customers c4d doesn't include an honest renderer and must pay extra for the privilege of rendering their work? That's lamprey/leech territory.

 

Pitching a failing product that is dead-in-the-water with the promise of an "all-new-bright-and-shining-UI" that most users call a step backwards? That's tic, flea, bed bug territory.

 

 

You are absolutely entitled to you option. But you really have to state them without personal assaults. It does't help anybody - not the forum, not the user, and also not yourself.

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1 minute ago, Icecaveman said:

Again: Tell me where I'm wrong. Forced Subscriptions is blood sucking.

 

That's not the issue. It's the unnecessary rudeness and personal accusations in your comments I am taking issue with.

 

CBR

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6 minutes ago, Jops said:

You are absolutely entitled to you option. But you really have to state them without personal assaults. It does't help anybody - not the forum, not the user, and also not yourself.

It was 100% personal what Dave did to me and to C4d user base. It was nothing less than an inhuman assault on our wallets, our careers, and our hobbies. It is criminal, though not in the courts that protect the elites and the corporate predators.

 

And after all this...he has provided nothing. Maxon has nothing to go up against its competitors. It only falls further behind.

 

7 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

 

That's not the issue. It's the unnecessary rudeness and personal accusations in your comments I am taking issue with.

 

CBR

 

Who's the rude one? Remind me again? Spell out the name of the real offender, please!

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Folks I hate to be a policeman but, this should not continue in this tone. We are better than this and I believe everyone at this point expressed all the feelings they had so I don't see the point of continuing this thread as its just getting worse and worse, and if this continues Ill simply lock the topic and everyone simply moves on. So please if you are still angry simply restrain yourself on commenting at this point, simply because anger will not change anything. 

 

Unfortunately things are as they are and not much we can do to change this situation. I understand all the points said here and some are very valid and true while others are just plain speculations and should not be said in the tone they are said. Attacking or defending the company that runs business doesn't help anyone actually, not a user or a company. Praising them all the time gives them wrong impression, attacking them all the time will simply make them blind to your comments. So, all in all, balance is the key in my opinion. If I could give you one good advice then it would be that you should not emotionally attach to any kind of software and company especially if you have no power over it in making decisions. Simply stick to it and hope for the best or move on and take an opportunity to try something new even though it might feel hard. Luckily for everyone, we have options, great and free content everywhere and in the end forums to share and ask questions. Good times to be alive if you ask me. 

 

So I would like to ask everyone to either continue this thread in nice and friendly tone with constructive feedback or simply move on and hope for the best.

 

Take care,
Igor :cowboypistol:

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A wise man of old said the following:

 

 

There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2     a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3     a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
4     a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5     a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6     a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7     a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8     a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

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1 hour ago, Icecaveman said:

Correct me where I am wrong? Longtime customers are utterly screwed.

 

I am a long time customer, and I have just paid what I considered to be a rather reasonable 900 pounds to update from R21 perpetual to R23 Perpetual.

That is 2 versions worth of functionality for less than the price of 2 yrs of the annual MSA I paid every year up to R21. So in that respect I don't feel I have been screwed OR forced into subscription while that option was on the table. I currently have the option to go to 25 perpetual for a similar price. I do consider it a shame that support for perpetuals is limited to 3 months, Cineversity is not included, and may be somewhat personally disappointed that Maxon hasn't so far gone for the 'Rent to buy' model, which I think would make a lot of long term users much happier, but I don't feel that hard done by as long as perpetuals continue to be available with yearly upgrade options.

 

CBR

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11 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I am a long time customer, and I have just paid what I considered to be a rather reasonable 900 pounds to update from R21 perpetual to R23 Perpetual.

That is 2 versions worth of functionality for less than the price of 2 yrs of the annual MSA I paid every year up to R21.

 

Hmm. I have read a similar calculation by others but it keeps me wondering. R21 to R23 is one year; while that year's development work has been divided into two releases, it's still no different from previous years, and certainly not comparable to two years of MSA. I did pay the R23 upgrade too, but grudgingly as it was a vast price increase over the MSA (when the MSA itself had already been raised in price the year before).

I cannot remember that we paid only half the upgrade when we still had point five version numbers back then, and I certainly didn't suddenly earn twice as much money per year now to justify counting R23 as two versions to compare against two MSAs.

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I see your point @Cairyn and concur to some extent, but I did honestly see the value in paying that much for what new functionality there was between 21 and 23, and it was on that basis that I made the decision rather than worrying too much about what was split up into what version when...

 

CBR

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45 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I see your point @Cairyn and concur to some extent, but I did honestly see the value in paying that much for what new functionality there was between 21 and 23, and it was on that basis that I made the decision rather than worrying too much about what was split up into what version when...

 

CBR

 

Well, that is fair. I paid for the R23 too, after all. I just want to emphasize that it was a significant price increase compared with previous years' MSA. (Were there many pre-subscription users that did not have an MSA and nevertheless upgraded, for the higher non-MSA price? I would expect MSA to be the better alternative; though it's now a moot point.)

The additions to character tools were IMO a great improvement. Can't say the same of R25 although I do listen to Everfresh's argument. Maybe I would upgrade to R25 after all, but sadly the renderer situation kills the thing for me.

 

We'll see how things will look like in four years.

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2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

 

I am a long time customer, and I have just paid what I considered to be a rather reasonable 900 pounds to update from R21 perpetual to R23 Perpetual.

That is 2 versions worth of functionality for less than the price of 2 yrs of the annual MSA I paid every year up to R21. So in that respect I don't feel I have been screwed OR forced into subscription while that option was on the table. I currently have the option to go to 25 perpetual for a similar price. I do consider it a shame that support for perpetuals is limited to 3 months, Cineversity is not included, and may be somewhat personally disappointed that Maxon hasn't so far gone for the 'Rent to buy' model, which I think would make a lot of long term users much happier, but I don't feel that hard done by as long as perpetuals continue to be available with yearly upgrade options.

 

CBR

@Cerbera, have you considered going into the subscription route? 
I ask because I am actually considering getting the perpetual license, the opposite route... even though it would be a major investment.
But I just want to stay in the same version for a very long time I reckon... but as I mentioned in another thread, I am finding difficult to continue with my character animation career inside C4D 😞

I feel that Blender is not for me yet.. and Maya is a scary monster so far.  

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