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Cinema R25 Release


Guest Igor

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5 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

Certainly not trying to be dismissive of anyones thoughts or feelings.  I too have my whole career and living wrapped up in Cinema, as well as Vectorworks - made by the same company and releasing new versions of both softwares in the same week this year.  I am passionate about the future of Cinema4d and sure, there are things I'd like to change and things I'd like to see different.  Am I thrilled about the Maxon App - not really.  Do I like the concept of subscriptions - not really.

 

I give constructive feedback on the user experience when I can, I submit problematic files, and have dialogue with tech support.  But I'm not speculating on the inner workings of the company or their intensions based on remarks from a company guy, trying to talk to the community, over the internet.  Be pissed and speak your mind - I'm all for it: Just don't do it with tin foil on your head.

So you had me convinced of your sincerity up until that last sentence.  Exactly when did you stop trying to be dismissive?

 

Look, in light of R25 not being the most well received release and hearing about organizational changes and problems with collaboration does point out valid reasons for concern.  Per Anders did leave this year too as well...so there are connections that could be made and all of that is alarming to someone who has invested heavily in C4D and sincerely wishes to continue doing so in the future.  But when I connect all those dots together, I think  there are valid concerns over that future.  And to be fair, I did ask if I was reading too much into it....but maybe you missed that part. 

 

But it appears by your own comments that you are not that happy with C4D but are content to not say anything about until you are called out. That is fine.  We all have different thresholds.  But don't criticize others for being "bonkers" or tin-foil hat conspirators when they have concerns but then lecture us about how you like to be constructive while at the same time raising the exact same concerns with C4D that the rest of us have.  Nevertheless, you won't hear me calling you bonkers.

 

2 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

By organizational change I was referring to the acquisition of Redshift, Forger and Bang and the merger with Red Giant. We've brought a lot of new companies and people into the organization in the midst of a pandemic, and unfortunately because of safety and travel restrictions we've not had a chance for many of those people to meet in person and have the kind of philosophical conversations one often has over an adult beverage. There's been a ton of Teams calls, but I think 100 Teams calls can't replace an hour of seeing each other in person.

 

And yes, some folks have chosen to move on throughout C4D's history (not just recently), though many are still active in the Maxon ecosystem. They had a great contribution to our products in the past and we wish them the best. But it's important to keep in mind that the senior devs that ushered C4D and other Maxon products to success are still very much a part of the company and day-to-day operations - some have moved to the C-level while others have been given Fellow positions.

 

And for clarity - while I just said in this post the lack of in-person is an internal issue as well, the comment above was referring to conversations with users. Evan's absolutely right - I'm used to processing feedback both on the show floor and at the after party. In-person it's a lot easier to ask follow-up questions and narrow down what we need to do without the topic splintering into a whole bunch of other conversations - in person there's immediacy, and if the topic changes often that splinter group will move aside so two separate conversations don't have to happen on top of each other. And alcohol helps 😉

 

Cheers,

Rick

 

To hopefully end this  thread on a positive note:  I would like applaud Rick for setting the score straight...and continuing to do it in a very respectful and polite manner.  He is top shelf in my book and I sincerely appreciate his participation in this forum and his patience...especially with me.  Just remember that it all comes from a common desire to keep C4D meaningful and relevant for every user as time goes  on.

 

Dave

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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33 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

It's true Dave - it was a cheap shot and I apologize.

I appreciate it.  You are top shelf in my book too.

 

I also looked at your web-site.  Mad skills.  Really outstanding.

 

Dave

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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I tried to explain to my daughter (7 y old) what are all the c4d passions about every release and she said: "so all of you are searching for the perfect brush to draw but never draw...". S4D is perfect for me, Blender is...there is no logic there, improvement but to do work and get paid needs workflow. Some people can do ...I love Cinema and I will def buy this version, I think C4D should slow all. Let make a release in 2 years but with more stuff. People will save money and buy it.

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23 hours ago, DasFrodo said:


Sorry, that's just bullshit.

 

People have different reasons to stay, be it not having to learn something else, not being able to financally afford to cripple their workflow for months or just straight up attachement to the software. Pretty much the only thing people complain about is not getting cool new stuff, that doesn't mean older versions are insufficiant for their workflows. It just means people are pissed that they're pushed into a subscription and not getting anything in return.

Maxons subscription model is reason I jumped ship , that and weak releases, promises of "UV tools are coming"

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8 minutes ago, Nio said:

I tried to explain to my daughter (7 y old) what are all the c4d passions about every release and she said: "so all of you are searching for the perfect brush to draw but never draw...". S4D is perfect for me, Blender is...there is no logic there, improvement but to do work and get paid needs workflow. Some people can do ...I love Cinema and I will def buy this version, I think C4D should slow all. Let make a release in 2 years but with more stuff. People will save money and buy it.

Haha, love your daughter's commentary on this issue. And it is a cool thing you love C4D.
I love it too, but, personally speaking, it is becoming less and less worth the money. 
If they added an indie license, then...things could take a different direction.

Also, a giant and substantial release every 2 years it is not so bad either.  Not sure if it would work..
and people would die of boredom mostly hehe.

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35 minutes ago, FLima said:

Haha, love your daughter's commentary on this issue. And it is a cool thing you love C4D.
I love it too, but, personally speaking, it is becoming less and less worth the money. 
If they added an indie license, then...things could take a different direction.

Also, a giant and substantial release every 2 years it is not so bad either.  Not sure if it would work..
and people would die of boredom mostly hehe.

 

I haven't seriously touched C4D in months. Both due to my job (switched from artist to mainly management position) and just not being able to afford the newer releases, so I'm stuck on R21.

 

I love C4D and the entire community but I just cannot justify this amount of money for the occasional hobby project. I have Blender for that now.

 

The second they would announce an indie version I would subscribe if it's a fair price. Hell, give us a non commercial version for the hobbyists. Just SOMETHING. Yes, I know there's the student version but I am not a student anymore.

Visit my Portfolio on Artstation.com & Follow me on Instagram

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45 minutes ago, Nio said:

"so all of you are searching for the perfect brush to draw but never draw..."

Indeed, worrying and fighting over which brush is better is a basic trait of human nature, it seems: unfortunately the majority of the human race seems forever stuck in a perceived illusionary battle of "my X > your Y".

 

Sofware is just software. Use what works best for you and for the job at hand.

 

That said, if one brush paints the same strokes as the other brush, but costs a thousand times more without any clear obvious advantage for a given job, one cannot but question the pricing policy.

 

And your daughter is definitely right: instead of bickering, spend more time on creating. And enjoy the brush that you've picked - or change it to another one if that works better for you, the painting that you're working on, or if the price is out of reach.

 

[...crawling back behind workstation to continue work now...]

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49 minutes ago, DasFrodo said:

The second they would announce an indie version I would subscribe if it's a fair price. Hell, give us a non commercial version for the hobbyists. Just SOMETHING. Yes, I know there's the student version but I am not a student anymore.

It's funny - just before Maxon cancelled the Prime edition, I stood on the precipice of purchasing it for hobby work. That didn't work out 😉

 

But yes, an indie version like the Houdini one would most definitely be a good thing for hobbyists, and also important to keep the millennials on-board for a fresh intake of younger new C4D 3D users. I also started a Houdini course a few days ago, and the Indie version is actually quite affordable for what is on offer.

 

A non-commercial educational version will probably not be enough to attract new users or keep them from running to other alternatives: the 3DS Max forums experience(d) an exodus to Blender the past few years.

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31 minutes ago, MazurBr said:

Yes, let me repeat this if you are not aware: Maxon CHARGES for its student version. It's a small amount but it's ridiculous nevertheless, specially in a world where most of other big 3D software have a free educational version and Blender exists. 

Uhm, excuse me? When did that happen? I missed that.

 

THAT   

...is a mistake. I work with students, and teach from time to time. Students are entirely unwilling to even pay $10 extra for software for their projects. I know, I tried it. It would have made their work lives and project 100 times better, but NO-ONE in my groups would touch and use that software tool.

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