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Cinema R25 Release


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2 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

We are slowly being squeezed out by Maxon from having any relevance at all.  We don't get libraries, we don't get Cineversity, we don't get more than 3 months of technical support and now we are losing access to our executables. 

 


* Only three months of support – I wasn’t updated on this. Man.. with all that money paid for the license..
* Cineversity – Ok, I know. A clear sign, that perpetual license customers have become a pariah caste.

Can you please elaborate on these:

* Libraries – what do you mean here? What are we not getting?
* Losing access to executables? Have I missed something, can you explain?

-Ingvar


 

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4 minutes ago, ingvarai said:

* Only three months of support – I wasn’t updated on this. Man.. with all that money paid for the license..
* Cineversity – Ok, I know. A clear sign, that perpetual license customers have become a pariah caste.
* Libraries – what do you mean here? What are we not getting?

* Losing access to executables? Have I missed something, can you explain?

 

- Support: that's probably the policy. I think something like that has been the policy for quite some time. I'm always more than happy to help folks with nerdy C4D questions - solving problems is my favorite thing to do! Fortunately too there's a great community of C4D artists that are incredibly generous and helpful.

 

- Cineversity: this has always been a subscription benefit. It's just that at one time it was an MSA subscription. Maxon gives away a ton of content to everyone. Our training team offers two or more free webinars a week, on top of our monthly (or more frequent) 3D Design and Motion Show streams. Much of Cineversity's tutorials are free both on YouTube and the site itself, but a few are available only to subscribers. We're increasingly working to replace key Cineversity toolbox functionality with new, more powerful features in Cinema 4D itself.

 

- Libraries - with the introduction of the Asset Browser we've started releasing more objects, materials and other assets on a monthly basis to subscribers. It's one of those things that makes a lot more sense for both us and customers under a subscription arrangement.

 

- Executables - these were always hidden behind closed customer portals before R21, and US customers always had to request them from support. I think you still can, but if you run into issues send me a DM and I'll shoot you a link. R21 and forward customers can easily grab any release from the website.

 

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26 minutes ago, DMcGavran said:

You of all people know I am open to a conversation right? 


Cheers

Dave

mr.  gavran if you really open to conversion i have a question. 

 

whats about cinemas course for future? any plans any route? cinema4d developement plans willignore  sclutp, body paint, particles and other tools? or will take care for them too? there is game industry and other areas that needs that tools. even small company like marmoset takes way to be a painter for models in future. blender cares sclupt and other programs do different improvoments for those areas in several industries. so we can hear what thinks maxon? or future plans open for only investors?  

 

if maxon share some future plans to customer, i think many of us will become more relaxed and patience. we dont need to corporate secrets of maxon. just few info and roatmap.

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Is now a good time to bring up Rent to Own?

 

Honestly, if there was a program that said "after X consecutive years of subscription, you will be entitled to get the next release as a perpetual license for a nominal additional fee over the subscription price" I would say that is a win-win for everyone and all my arguments go away.   

 

Dave

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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17 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

- Cineversity: this has always been a subscription benefit. It's just that at one time it was an MSA subscription. Maxon gives away a ton of content to everyone. Our training team offers two or more free webinars a week, on top of our monthly (or more frequent) 3D Design and Motion Show streams. Much of Cineversity's tutorials are free both on YouTube and the site itself, but a few are available only to subscribers. We're increasingly working to replace key Cineversity toolbox functionality with new, more powerful features in Cinema 4D itself.

 

- Libraries - with the introduction of the Asset Browser we've started releasing more objects, materials and other assets on a monthly basis to subscribers. It's one of those things that makes a lot more sense for both us and customers under a subscription arrangement.

 

- Executables - these were always hidden behind closed customer portals before R21, and US customers always had to request them from support. I think you still can, but if you run into issues send me a DM and I'll shoot you a link. R21 and forward customers can easily grab any release from the website.

 


Please, you cannot use the word «subscription» in the MSA context, since MSA has little to nothing to do with today’s subscription model. MSA was a Service Agreement. An agreement I had with Maxon for at least 5 years.  And I got the software to own, forever.

What you write about the libraries – if it «makes a lot more sense for subscribers», as you put it, really? I must say, it also makes a lot of sense for me to have access to these libraries too, as a perpetual license customer. So what’s the problem here?

What you write about the executables – I have absolutely no idea what this is all about. What executables? I am not making myself dumb, I just have no idea what «executables» in this context means.

-Ingvar

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35 minutes ago, DMcGavran said:

You of all people know I am open to a conversation right? 


Cheers

Dave

Yes, and I have absolutely nothing against you as a private person and I like to look back to this evening. But I have to accept that even though I told you about all this problems and feelings that come up now, right in the beginning, absolutely nothing has changed. You now take 175€ for a perpetual license transition? Look the only person that can change the way your customers feel and therefore react is you. As long as you squeeze them they will squeak. And even though I'm not proud of the tone of my last post, that I wrote while I was tired and hungry. I unfortunately think that it basically is true. And I find this disappointing. I think that giving a hard but honest feedback is much harder than just be cheering, but it never the less is no sign of antipathy. If i wouldn't love C4D and If I haven't met you I might just don't care. But this way I just don't understand. 

I think and already postet it, that capsules is super promising and I find it very shortsighted by many to not realize that. And I just can imagine what a fight it is to power through the new core and I adore this effort, but I find it hard to understand why it is important to at the same time fight your customers.

 

best regards

Jops

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42 minutes ago, ingvarai said:

What you write about the libraries – if it «makes a lot more sense for subscribers», as you put it, really? I must say, it also makes a lot of sense for me to have access to these libraries too, as a perpetual license customer. So what’s the problem here?


What you write about the executables – I have absolutely no idea what this is all about. What executables? I am not making myself dumb, I just have no idea what «executables» in this context means.


Ongoing asset distribution is something we couldn't offer outside of subscription, thanks to Enron and all those revenue recognition rules. It's also something that would've been harder to justify financially within the company. We always had assets and felt they were important, but now we're in a position of wanting to give you consistent value as part of your subscription and an ever-growing asset library is one great thing we can give subscribers in addition to frequent feature upgrades.

 

Regarding executables - I presumed Dave was referring to the installers.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, kmls said:

whats about cinemas course for future? any plans any route?

 

We'll be continuing efforts to improve workflows that are important to our customers, to deliver quality-of-life improvements and new procedural options to create compelling graphics and animations.

 

It's always tricky to balance openness with expectations - the roadmap doesn't always pan out the way you expect. Sometimes in a good way. Sometimes you acquire two companies and merge with a third in the span of a couple of years and plans shift a bit. Sometimes things take longer than you expect (actually they almost always take longer than you or I expect).

 

Cinema 4D is a really broad and deep application that touches a lot of workflows. None of them are forgotten, but we have to prioritize, and in some cases there's building blocks we have to get in place before we can tackle a given workflow or feature.

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15 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

 

 

Oh....and if you love freedom the way I do, then I cannot say enough good things about the Blender training in this course --- now on SALE again:

 

 

image.png.39e20fd6294ddc0ff9f62fa9b94c7fdb.png

 

 

I already have some good Blender training, but might need to check this out.

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8 hours ago, Jops said:

Yes, and I have absolutely nothing against you as a private person and I like to look back to this evening. But I have to accept that even though I told you about all this problems and feelings that come up now, right in the beginning, absolutely nothing has changed. You now take 175€ for a perpetual license transition? Look the only person that can change the way your customers feel and therefore react is you. As long as you squeeze them they will squeak. And even though I'm not proud of the tone of my last post, that I wrote while I was tired and hungry. I unfortunately think that it basically is true. And I find this disappointing. I think that giving a hard but honest feedback is much harder than just be cheering, but it never the less is no sign of antipathy. If i wouldn't love C4D and If I haven't met you I might just don't care. But this way I just don't understand. 

I think and already postet it, that capsules is super promising and I find it very shortsighted by many to not realize that. And I just can imagine what a fight it is to power through the new core and I adore this effort, but I find it hard to understand why it is important to at the same time fight your customers.

 

best regards

Jops

I think the misunderstanding is that when people on the internet say that Maxon doesn't listen what they are actually saying is Maxon doesn't do what I say they should.   Maxon does listen.  We have open conversations, we read all the feedback whether it is pleasant or not, we go to trade shows, we put ourselves as employees out there (Hi Rick!).   Then we take a massive amount of feedback and make the best decision that we can.    That isn't the same as doing what a single customer says.  That old saying... Can't please all the customers on Core 4D all the time, is I think how it goes.  So we will always be happy to listen and at times we will disagree. But we are listening.


Cheers

Dave

 

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3 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

I think the misunderstanding is that when people on the internet say that Maxon doesn't listen what they are actually saying is Maxon doesn't do what I say they should.   Maxon does listen.  We have open conversations, we read all the feedback whether it is pleasant or not, we go to trade shows, we put ourselves as employees out there (Hi Rick!).   Then we take a massive amount of feedback and make the best decision that we can.    That isn't the same as doing what a single customer says.  That old saying... Can't please all the customers on Core 4D all the time, is I think how it goes.  So we will always be happy to listen and at times we will disagree. But we are listening.


Cheers

Dave

 

maybe I just don't have access to all those MSA customers that where begging for higher perpetual prices, all those users that where fed up with their access to cineversity or those that where screaming for a new UI. as I said before, you are responsible for the reactions of your customers. If you don't like the reactions, then you can change something. But if you don't change anything, don't be upset by the reactions.

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