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Cinema R25 Release


Guest Igor

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to interject a bit of humor in this tense thread. this actually happened at Houdini yesterday

 

Houdini users have been waiting for latest release H19.  I received an email yesterday (tuesday) from SideFx saying "dear H19 beta user. these are areas which have been updated for H19, a link to latest beta release, a link showing what all is updated, and more importantly when live version would be released. 

 

me: oh cool, I'm a beta tester and didn't know it.  clicking  like a fiend I found none of the links worked. about an hour later there was a post from one of the heads as SideFx saying "oops, we inadvertently sent that beta tester email almost all Houdini users."  LOL  now we know what is updated and when to expect it to be released. too funny

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That was such a chill comment. You embody the cheerful, widely admired and pleasant aspects of the Keanu Reeves archetype. I didn't use the 'guinea pigs' phase btw, just found it odd that you'd chuck students in front of R25 without actually teaching it to them. But this is fine.

 

I agree the Adobe method of subs is pretty good. 

 

No one in this thread is as nuts as Cutman was.

 

What will Maxon chuck into S26?

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2 hours ago, MazurBr said:

(that  use my students as guinea pigs)

That was me.

 

I don't think you are a bad teacher, In fact, I do think you know a lot of Maya, but I think maybe in the heat of the moment you forgot that by telling your students to download C4D R25 without you properly knowing it (Its brand new), you are basically wasting their 14 days as a trial version, unless of course they have finally paid for the student version. Also, its pretty mean to tell someone who is learning, to follow a tutorial with a different UI just to prove a point, that's the reason I choose those particular words.

 

Anyway. If I offended you, please accept my apology.

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3 minutes ago, MazurBr said:

I said SOME of my students, not all of them. I told the class we wouldn't be using R25 because the UI was too different and professionally you never update in the middle of a project. Two students asked if they could try using R25. I said, "sure go ahead, try following the next module with R25 and let me know how that goes". Two days later they both told me they couldn't follow along, the new UI was too confusing "like another program" according to one of them. 

 

That was it. No students as Guinea pigs. Just an anecdote showing how the new UI can be confusing for beginners following a tutorial with the old UI.  

We often forget that being to long into something simply diminishes our understanding of what means to be a total beginner.  WE think just because we know things and they don't seem hard to understand, others will have the same experience, and that is simply wrong. No matter how good your UI is or UX, for total beginner its going to be confusing, they will hit walls, they will get frustrated and so on. Even the smallest change can disrupt learning curve simply because they don't know the logic behind even when you explain them why. There are so much topics around 3D and it simply takes time to get into it, chaining UI so drastically will not help anyone to have better understanding of the software if they don't take time to understand the logic behind. So chaning UI this drastically will affect newcomers simply due to lack of content they can follow. 

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3 hours ago, MazurBr said:

Hi @srekI appreciate your point of view and I actually agree that most of the backlash you guys received in this forum for past releases was not reflected in other C4D communities. But what I'm seeing now is very different. Have you checked the comments on the official R25 video on Maxon channel? The comments are brutal. The majority hated the release and the new UI. In comparison to those comments, we are being very, very polite and nice here at Core4D. Check it out:

 

I was following this live, but honestly, these knee jerk reactions tend to be over the top, in both directions. From my experience it takes a few weeks until people actualy had a chance to get their hands on the new version and functions and actually gave it a good try. I have read it a couple of times on this forum as well "This is (fantastic/rubbish) ... maybe i can try it in a few days". That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal. I get it, the first contact is often emotional, but the important part is to actually double check. Given the limited ressources we have, we try to not do things that we do not see as ultimately useful and better. Of course we make  mistakes, thats why we have betatesters to tell us so early on (sometimes we even listen 😉 ), and then we watch the reactions of our users, sometimes hands on like here on this forum. We get a lot of direct feedback from studios and it is interesting to see how divergent from public feedback that can be. Pretty often the topics that come up are quite different from what comes up here.

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3 hours ago, MazurBr said:

 Have you checked the comments on the official R25 video on Maxon channel? The comments are brutal. The majority hated the release and the new UI. 

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. 
It was fixed.
Question is - who felt that it was broken?

-Ingvar

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With all the changes in 3d land (and our world and many of our lives) I've got more song lyrics for you all. This time from Bob Dylan

 

 

Come gather ’round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You’ll be drenched to the bone

If your time to you is worth savin’

Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin’
 

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2 hours ago, ingvarai said:

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. 
It was fixed.
Question is - who felt that it was broken?

-Ingvar

That might have been your perception, but UI and UX paradigms of Cinema 4D did not maintain integrity over the many years of additions and changes. This is less obvious for long term users since they only see a small change at a time and adjust to the quirks that develop.

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2 hours ago, srek said:

I was following this live, but honestly, these knee jerk reactions tend to be over the top, in both directions. From my experience it takes a few weeks until people actualy had a chance to get their hands on the new version and functions and actually gave it a good try. I have read it a couple of times on this forum as well "This is (fantastic/rubbish) ... maybe i can try it in a few days". That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal. I get it, the first contact is often emotional, but the important part is to actually double check. Given the limited ressources we have, we try to not do things that we do not see as ultimately useful and better. Of course we make  mistakes, thats why we have betatesters to tell us so early on (sometimes we even listen 😉 ), and then we watch the reactions of our users, sometimes hands on like here on this forum. We get a lot of direct feedback from studios and it is interesting to see how divergent from public feedback that can be. Pretty often the topics that come up are quite different from what comes up here.

You are right, that the perseption changes over time, and that statements on Youtube tend to be over the top. I looked for equivalent videos for R21 and before and just could find this one from R19. The statements there tend to be quite a bit friendlier though.

 

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17 minutes ago, srek said:

That might have been your perception, but UI and UX paradigms of Cinema 4D did not maintain integrity over the many years of additions and changes. This is less obvious for long term users since they only see a small change at a time and adjust to the quirks that develop.

I didn't say it wasn't broken. I asked: Who felt that is was broken.
A rather interesting question, isn't it?

-Ingvar
 

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