Jump to content

Dear Visitors

If your confirmation email doesn't arrive, give us some time while we manually approve your account. Support ticket is not necessary, we are checking new registrations regularly and approving if registration requirements are met.

Please read Rules & Guidelines before posting around Forums. Information we seek is minimal and in the end saves us a lot of time and we are able to provide solutions faster.

Please consider supporting us via Contributions for all the work we are doing. Contributing even with the smallest amount, will remove ALL AD's and unlock some nice features like being able to be Tipped for providing help, or file etc.


Cinema R25 Release


Igor

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, keppn said:

Some thoughts about the new UI:

-- The layout changes aren't that drastic as many people seem to make them. The palettes moved a bit, but in a logical way, that reduces mouse travel.

-- The new icons fulfill a lot of ojective criteria for icons: they are discernible, consistent, readable in any scale and 'speak' very well. C4D has by far the best Icons of all apps I know, the new ones continue this.

-- Color: Personally, I like the color theme, but it would be great if we had 3 nice presets for light, semi-dark-grey and dark background, plus 2 or 3 color-themes for the icons. Or a color-temperature-slider 😉

-- Reorganization: The menu-clean-up was reaaally needed and well done; now the rest of the UI feels on par. For me, that was a successful overhaul. 

-- Timing: UI/UX is made by a special team, so the Redesign likely did not take a lot of ressources away from developing the functional parts of the app. Which, sorry to say, makes the R25 update look even more thin 😕

 

It seems, the UI refresh was planned as a 'stopgap' to stretch time until something is ready in the developer's department...

Nevertheless, it was well done, that's my point 🙂

Overall...I agree with the end result - especially the new features that are not icon or location  dependent such as hot corners, tabs, etc.  I just think they could have done a few things to make the transition an easier one.  For example, you can revert back to the originally layout but you cannot revert back to the original icons.  People speak of muscle memory but that is easily solved with the old layouts and ONLY for those commands that are in that old layout.   What I would have preferred is the ability to switch back to the old icons just to re-orient yourself to the layout first and then (when you are ready) re-orient yourself to the new icons.  Even when muscle memory kicks in, if the icon is completely different you have to pause for a minute, hover over the icon a bit, see the name come up and then once you have confirmed this is the command you want, you proceed.  That actually slows you down more than you may think.  

 

The fastest way (IMHO) to learn the new UI is to create your own layout.  Redo everything and rebuild it how you want it to work.  The pedantic action of finding and placing each icon where you want it both teaches you where it will be located and what it looks like.  People are saying that it takes about a week of use to become familiar with it but I think re-building your custom layout will get you there much faster (hours not days).

 

Dave

 

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

Link to comment

there is no icons for some commands... like break phong shading command. it was on my layout in s24 and now i cant add it because this is not have any icon. just grey square.  same on other some commands on my previous layout. so if i do same layout in r25 its shows me lot of blank squares....yeah cool layout at least... drop your work and try to find which gray square is what....

 

Link to comment

Yesterday I watched Maxon's history - her first decision was a flip of a coin. The coin decided between tables and graphics. Specific choice of solutions laid in the foundation. There's no point in even reporting errors. We just keep working with what Maxon gives us. In general, their course can be defined as "simple and clear ways to solve any graphic problems. So all in all, you can be relaxed.
image.png.6cb4e25be7719dec97b38f61318435ae.png

Link to comment
3 hours ago, kmls said:

there is no icons for some commands... like break phong shading command. it was on my layout in s24 and now i cant add it because this is not have any icon. just grey square.  same on other some commands on my previous layout. so if i do same layout in r25 its shows me lot of blank squares....yeah cool layout at least... drop your work and try to find which gray square is what....

 

Dear Maxon, as perpetual users get just one bug fixing update (or should I say maybe, as even that is just free will by maxon as stated in the new EULA)

Why should we buy a software with a new layout that is not finished? as nearly all the other new features of R25 are not finished!

Link to comment
21 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

I'll admit that with all the organizational change and COVID crap we've been dealing with the past couple years it's been a bit tricky for me to replace those in-person conversations.

 

Rick,

 

Care to elaborate?   The only organizational change I know of is Per Anders leaving...which was a bit of a shock.  That is huge loss to Maxon to lose the person who accepted the Technical Achievement Oscar in 2020 for MoGraph.  I mean he put Maxon on the map (IMHO) with MoGraph.   When a person is responsible for that type of technical product contribution in my company they make him a "Fellow" which is VP level.  You really want to hold onto your "Maxon Fellows".  Losing them is like when Apple fired Steve Jobs in 1985 and we all know what happened to Apple between then and when he came back.  It was a dark period marked by lack of innovation and dwindling sales (though I wish I had bought the stock for $3/share).

 

So what is going on? Just trying to think what type of organizational changes impact collaboration as you say it is "tricky to replace those in-person conversations".  That can only "really" happen when key people leave.   Covid has an impact, but you can still call people up and read their body language via a Zoom or Web-Ex call. So Is there any more regrettable attrition going on and/or how is the new organizational structure impacting collaboration?   Overall, no matter what the cause, that is not good.

 

Am I reading too much into this?

 

Dave

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Rick,

 

Care to elaborate?   The only organizational change I know of is Per Anders leaving...which was a bit of a shock.  That is huge loss to Maxon to lose the person who accepted the Technical Achievement Oscar in 2020 for MoGraph.  I mean he put Maxon on the map (IMHO) with MoGraph.   When a person is responsible for that type of technical product contribution in my company they make him a "Fellow" which is VP level.  You really want to hold onto your "Maxon Fellows".  Losing them is like when Apple fired Steve Jobs in 1985 and we all know what happened to Apple between then and when he came back.  It was a dark period marked by lack of innovation and dwindling sales (though I wish I had bought the stock for $3/share).

 

So what is going on? Just trying to think what type of organizational changes impact collaboration as you say it is "tricky to replace those in-person conversations".  That can only "really" happen when key people leave.   Covid has an impact, but you can still call people up and read their body language via a Zoom or Web-Ex call. So Is there any more regrettable attrition going on and/or how is the new organizational structure impacting collaboration?   Overall, no matter what the cause, that is not good.

 

Am I reading too much into this?

 

Dave

I didn't know  Per Anders left. That is indeed ominously bad news. Maxon seems to have a long track record of letting their best programmers leave, the very negative impact of which I've seen over and over. It seems like they hire someone with a specialty, let that person add the new feature which is their specialty, and then when that person is finished, let that person go, the result of which is that there is no one left who knows how to keep improving on the original programmer's work because that person is gone, so his or her work is thereafter barely ever touched or improved upon, the result being that the feature becomes somewhat of an orphan and nothing is ever updated or improved upon, as we have seen over and over again. 

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, MJV said:

I didn't know  Per Anders left. That is indeed ominously bad news. Maxon seems to have a long track record of letting their best programmers leave, the very negative impact of which I've seen over and over. It seems like they hire someone with a specialty, let that person add the new feature which is their specialty, and then when that person is finished, let that person go, the result of which is that there is no one left who knows how to keep improving on the original programmer's work because that person is gone, so his or her work is thereafter barely ever touched or improved upon, the result being that the feature becomes somewhat of an orphan and nothing is ever updated or improved upon, as we have seen over and over again. 

Interesting....that would explain a great many things.

 

But the jewel in the Maxon crown is MoGraph.  I know that every organization has to plan that anyone can be replaced, but there are just some key people you need to keep and Per was one of them.  I mean, imagine if he went to Blender as I do understand that some motion graphics capability either already exists in the program or is being developed.  That would be game over for Maxon because where else can C4D hang its hat as "best in breed" other than MoGraph? 

 

Hey, you want to charge top dollar you better be top dog in something (and it can NOT only be in the UI --- comfy seats are nice but ultimately you want your luxury car to have a good engine).

 

Dave

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

Link to comment
35 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Rick,

 

Care to elaborate?   The only organizational change I know of is Per Anders leaving...which was a bit of a shock.  That is huge loss to Maxon to lose the person who accepted the Technical Achievement Oscar in 2020 for MoGraph.  I mean he put Maxon on the map (IMHO) with MoGraph.   When a person is responsible for that type of technical product contribution in my company they make him a "Fellow" which is VP level.  You really want to hold onto your "Maxon Fellows".  Losing them is like when Apple fired Steve Jobs in 1985 and we all know what happened to Apple between then and when he came back.  It was a dark period marked by lack of innovation and dwindling sales (though I wish I had bought the stock for $3/share).

 

So what is going on? Just trying to think what type of organizational changes impact collaboration as you say it is "tricky to replace those in-person conversations".  That can only "really" happen when key people leave.   Covid has an impact, but you can still call people up and read their body language via a Zoom or Web-Ex call. So Is there any more regrettable attrition going on and/or how is the new organizational structure impacting collaboration?   Overall, no matter what the cause, that is not good.

 

Am I reading too much into this?

 

Dave

Dave - please, take a deep breath.  It's going to be okay, dude.

 

I don't want to speak for Rick, but I believe he is just saying because of the pandemic, it's been harder to meet face to face with end users at shows and events.  Zoom and message boards aren't the same as personal interactions - especially when you're dealing with artists and designers.  No deep conspiracies.

 

It's just software.  Every time a new release comes out you go bananas on here.  I worry for your health.  Of course, everyone is entitled to an option - I'm not trying to change your mind.  I just respectfully ask you to take a breath and focus on what the software is designed to do - create.

evanalexander.com     Abusing chromatic aberration heavily since 2011....

Link to comment
1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Care to elaborate?

 

By organizational change I was referring to the acquisition of Redshift, Forger and Bang and the merger with Red Giant. We've brought a lot of new companies and people into the organization in the midst of a pandemic, and unfortunately because of safety and travel restrictions we've not had a chance for many of those people to meet in person and have the kind of philosophical conversations one often has over an adult beverage. There's been a ton of Teams calls, but I think 100 Teams calls can't replace an hour of seeing each other in person.

 

And yes, some folks have chosen to move on throughout C4D's history (not just recently), though many are still active in the Maxon ecosystem. They had a great contribution to our products in the past and we wish them the best. But it's important to keep in mind that the senior devs that ushered C4D and other Maxon products to success are still very much a part of the company and day-to-day operations - some have moved to the C-level while others have been given Fellow positions.

 

And for clarity - while I just said in this post the lack of in-person is an internal issue as well, the comment above was referring to conversations with users. Evan's absolutely right - I'm used to processing feedback both on the show floor and at the after party. In-person it's a lot easier to ask follow-up questions and narrow down what we need to do without the topic splintering into a whole bunch of other conversations - in person there's immediacy, and if the topic changes often that splinter group will move aside so two separate conversations don't have to happen on top of each other. And alcohol helps 😉

 

Cheers,

Rick

Link to comment
1 hour ago, EAlexander said:

Dave - please, take a deep breath.  It's going to be okay, dude.

 

I don't want to speak for Rick, but I believe he is just saying because of the pandemic, it's been harder to meet face to face with end users at shows and events.  Zoom and message boards aren't the same as personal interactions - especially when you're dealing with artists and designers.  No deep conspiracies.

 

It's just software.  Every time a new release comes out you go bananas on here.  I worry for your health.  Of course, everyone is entitled to an option - I'm not trying to change your mind.  I just respectfully ask you to take a breath and focus on what the software is designed to do - create.

There is this dismissive tone I just  dont get it. "It is just a software"?
it is a software that is costing us A LOT of money, offering us little advancements and updates, ZERO listening to users feedback, completely ignoring all the REAL problems the software has, offering in exchange freaking gimmicks, improvements that nobody asked for... so what, we are supposed to be quiet, behave like good subsurvient users and  be mindful of our "mental health"? 

This exact same tone can be seen on Redshift forums.. treating costumers like entitled babies. 
We are customers, we pay a lot for this, we are allowed to be pissed if all the things we request for the software we are PAYING for is being intentionally ignored.

And so far, people here have been respectful towards each other (well, minus one kid...) but it doesnt mean we cant be honest about how we feel about the software we have invested thousands of dollars, and years of our lives.
I've said it before and I will say it again. If this pathetic excuse of an update doesnt affect you, then, good for you.
But dont diminish other people's complaints just because it doesnt personaly affect you

(This works for a lot of other things in life too) 

Link to comment
  • Customer

@RBarrett

 

I think you have a tough job being the front face of this shipwreck. certainly you are a company man and trying your best but the facts remain. this is the poorest release ever and it simply can't be that you people are not aware of that since that would constitute, sorry to say, mass delusion. reading on what 3dpangel says it seems you guys lost mograph guy which is, whatever circumstances of that are pure loss. i watched his award winning speech and he seemed very eloquent and humble since he mentioned whole bunch of people there. at least i know how to pronounce on of the admins name now 🙂

 

bottom line is, Cinema is looking very poor and that is always management fault. maybe it is intentionally weakened by current ceo so it can be swallowed by adobe or some other mastodont which would be extreme but hey, it is effin release 25 and if one would say that this would be it 10 years ago he would be called crazy

 

sorry folks, I am not throwing money at pencil pushers and outright hypocrites, total crap release, just plain madness for dinosaur toolset. got myself blender and will chip on it. I wish you all good luck on this wonderful site, this community is best what Cinema has to offer but I feel it is going lightwave way

Edited by Hrvoje
language, please... (s..t changed to crap) (see edit history)
Link to comment

Certainly not trying to be dismissive of anyones thoughts or feelings.  I too have my whole career and living wrapped up in Cinema, as well as Vectorworks - made by the same company and releasing new versions of both softwares in the same week this year.  I am passionate about the future of Cinema4d and sure, there are things I'd like to change and things I'd like to see different.  Am I thrilled about the Maxon App - not really.  Do I like the concept of subscriptions - not really.

 

I give constructive feedback on the user experience when I can, I submit problematic files, and have dialogue with tech support.  But I'm not speculating on the inner workings of the company or their intensions based on remarks from a company guy, trying to talk to the community, over the internet.  Be pissed and speak your mind - I'm all for it: Just don't do it with tin foil on your head.

evanalexander.com     Abusing chromatic aberration heavily since 2011....

Link to comment
  • Igor changed the title to Cinema R25 Release
  • Igor unfeatured this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • LATEST ACTIVITIES

    1. 2

      octane vs redshift

    2. 27

      C4D in the Apple event

    3. 43

      Igor's Sketchbook

    4. 2

      octane vs redshift

    5. 256

      Blender Tests and Impressions

×
×
  • Create New...

Copyright Core 4D © 2021 Powered by Invision Community