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C4D R25 SP1 release


Cerbera

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Okay....in case anyone is counting, there were 352 bug fixes in that release.  I mean, props to the team for fixing them all so quickly...but nevertheless that has to be a record.  And if it is, not the type of record you should be proud of.

 

Honestly!  What happened?  I sincerely hope Maxon has a postmortem on all that went wrong with R25.  I mean, it was a release that was extremely lean on features but had a huge number of things go wrong with it judging by the number of bug fixes.  

 

What happened to the quality?   How did you lose the recipe?

 

Please someone from Maxon try and sell me that this is normal, or this is a good thing, or that there is nothing to see here, so please move on.  Please, have a go a gas-lighting me...but I warn you that will be a mistake.

 

The smart move would be to own up to it and tell us why it will never happen again.  That will earn my respect.

 

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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11 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

What happened to the quality?   How did you lose the recipe?


Most of the bugs concerned Exchange and Scene Nodes. If you take those out the number of bugs doesn't differ much from other updates.

Importing new formats was always buggy.

SceneNodes are too complicated. It's virtually impossible not to have bugs. And since it's a relatively new feature and has undergone overall changes it's expected to be that buggy.

It's a good thing they find those bugs because it means people use these tools a lot.

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1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Okay....in case anyone is counting, there were 352 bug fixes in that release.  I mean, props to the team for fixing them all so quickly...but nevertheless that has to be a record.  And if it is, not the type of record you should be proud of.

 

Honestly!  What happened?  I sincerely hope Maxon has a postmortem on all that went wrong with R25.  I mean, it was a release that was extremely lean on features but had a huge number of things go wrong with it judging by the number of bug fixes.  

 

What happened to the quality?   How did you lose the recipe?

 

 

 

 

 

And by most accounts a lot of the bugs bring c4d users to their knees with hard crashes and data loss.

 

The trajectory for c4d in terms of innovation, usability, feature completion (no viable renderer, no usable particles, fluids etc) ..and most emphatically the overall value proposition...seems to be in free fall.

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2 hours ago, HappyPolygon said:


Most of the bugs concerned Exchange and Scene Nodes. If you take those out the number of bugs doesn't differ much from other updates.

Importing new formats was always buggy.

SceneNodes are too complicated. It's virtually impossible not to have bugs. And since it's a relatively new feature and has undergone overall changes it's expected to be that buggy.

It's a good thing they find those bugs because it means people use these tools a lot.

Ahhh....so this is a good thing!

 

I warned that was NOT a good argument.  Thankfully, you are not a Maxon employee.

 

Acceptance of mediocrity is NEVER a good thing and companies that fall into the trap of "well it was really hard so this many bugs is okay" quickly lose business to those companies which raise the bar on quality with every release.    Remember, Maxon's claim to fame used to be rock solid stability. It took years to get to that point.   All it can take is one bad release to lose that reputation.    That is why they should never accept mediocrity and should constantly be challenging and improving the quality controls they put into their release process.  Something got dropped with R25 in this respect and it needs to be route caused so it never happens again (actually, every release should have a post-mortem review no matter how smooth or rocky it was).  Just because it is "hard" or "always buggy" is a weak excuse and an overall losing strategy.  Maxon needs to constantly raise the bar for two reasons: to protect their brand name reputation and because of the price they charge (you do get what you pay for and C4D is not cheap).

 

Mediocrity and excuses should never be acceptable to any company that cares about the quality they deliver to the customer.

 

 

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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42 minutes ago, MJV said:

Complaining about too many bug fixes. 🤸‍♀️😄 

I believe you missed the point, no one here is complaining about bug fixes, but how did they generate to be so much of them for a release with pretty much only UI change. Now changing UI to that extent seems like an easy job, but it's not. 

Anyway, fixing that many bugs takes time and there is always a danger to create even more bugs if there was not enough testing. Seeing that many fixes doesn't mean people are using a feature but it could also mean they just released R25 with that many bugs and decided to fix later. I don't believe much people using scene nodes at all. As someone who was looking regularly at Nodevember challenge on Twitter, only thing I was seeing was coming from Blender and Houdini. Not a single C4D user. But maybe I just missed those somehow. Anyway, I hope release is in much better state now and kudos to devs for fixing so many issues, that is achievement on its own worth praising. 

 

 

Also, to add. Missing icons were never considered as bugs

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My point is I don't think you one can infer anything from it whatsoever. It could be anything from one fix solving hundreds of bugs or some coincidence of definition with a certain new class. Cinema 4D is what it is right now which everyone can see so it doesn't seem necessary to pile on about a probably statistically not significant one time differential in the bug ledger. 

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As a c4d user working in a stable pipeline i will always favour stability and efficiency over inovation. For me its more important to correct buggy tools than having a ton of new improvements all messed up.

 

R25 might not have many inovations/upgrades overall but the fact that we can use geometry modifiers nodes in the object manager as standard deformers (the way we are used to) is a huge step (its like adding +20 new tools) but in the end it was resumed to only one line of text in the ugrade list.

Capsules make Node functions possible in the Object Manager.

This "upgrade" is equivalent to hundreds of upgrades in softwares like 3ds max for example (the other 3d app i use).

 

However, this is not an excuse for all the bugs that are present in this version. The way i see maxon coming out of this release is to at least erradicate most of the bugs and problems that persist over several releases and assuring a stable and strong platform for the upcoming versions. This is a crutial point. That includes not addind more bugs (wich appened in this update).

If c4d becomes another bug hell fest like 3ds max then its not worth it. Blender is also full of new features but each time we try to use it here is filled with bugs and crashes.

 

 

cheers

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45 minutes ago, jbatista said:

As a c4d user working in a stable pipeline i will always favour stability and efficiency over inovation. For me its more important to correct buggy tools than having a ton of new improvements all messed up.

+1

 

In my opinion, the most important aspect for the main DCC app is stability. And it was the main reason I switched to C4D.

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I wonder if the contributing factor to all the bugs in R25 was that the interface changed drastically.  Not that the change itself caused the bugs, but learning a whole new interface slowed down the testing phase.  Very hard to give software a rigorous test if you have to re-learn how to use it.  Not saying it is impossible to do (of course it isn't) but remember that with mid-year releases you only get 6 months for each one (at best) and I think R24 was released a bit later than normal giving less time for testing R25.  Honestly, Maxon needs to drop the mandate that there has to be release every September.  September releases are only for perpetual license holders anyway.

Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

I wonder if the contributing factor to all the bugs in R25 was that the interface changed drastically.  Not that the change itself caused the bugs, but learning a whole new interface slowed down the testing phase.  Very hard to give software a rigorous test if you have to re-learn how to use it.  Not saying it is impossible to do (of course it isn't) but remember that with mid-year releases you only get 6 months for each one (at best) and I think R24 was released a bit later than normal giving less time for testing R25.  Honestly, Maxon needs to drop the mandate that there has to be release every September.  September releases are only for perpetual license holders anyway.

 

Yeah but you need a target for each release, or you could just keep R25 in a perpetual state forever or until 3 years later when nodes are finally finished.  You need specific date for the next release and then adopt milestones for progress along the way.     You need to figure out what you can realistically accomplish in that amount of time.  A year is a good number of billable hours to produce a next version.    Also, it provides paying customers and the press this idea that the developer is continuing to refine and update their software.   Even bad press is press.    If Maxon waited 3 years to release a new version, in general they wouldn't be talked about as much while developers like Blender, SideFX and Autodesk are continuing to release on set schedules.   The fact that a year passes and a release is imminent with "seemingly" little done is on them.  They'll have to take one on the chin, as is seen now with Maxon.   

Also, lets face facts, people are more whiny and bitchy these days because the internet has given them a place to complain as much as they want with a larger audience to hear it.   Maxon could have added X, Y or Z features to R25 and yet some whiny kids will complain it's not enough, or it wasn't the features THEY requested, or the blender kiddies would have chimed in about their free software with little to show that they've done anything in their free software except talk about it online.

Lastly, I thought there was something about releases needing to happen at least once a year to appease EU laws since it's subscription or maintenance?  I can't recall.

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Separate..

 

I'd like to see Maxon invest more steaming time into things like Asset Capsules and the node editor in general.   I know it's been talked about on some streams but it just seems like they aren't really investing that much time talking about.  They have these great 3D Motion road show streams but it's people using R20.  It would be great for Maxon to find more artists using, pushing and even almost breaking the new R25 nodes and tools.    R25 appears to be more than a UI facelift, missing icons and bug fixes.  Showcase that stuff.

 

I'm not a huge blender fan and use it sparingly for modeling, but a youtuber Erindale is doing these ridiculous streams showing how he's creating everything in Blender 3.0's geo nodes.   Granted, blender crawls on the floor like a dying dog, but he's at least showing how much can be done in their geo nodes now.

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