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Poll - What do C4D users need most after the latest update ? (Closed)


Poll  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. What type of feature do you feel C4D lacks most for realizing your creativity ?

    • New MoGraph Effectors (Clustering clones (no simulation), Particle Effectors, Morph Effector...)
      3
    • Some small upgrades to the Physical Render (Bloom effect, support for rendering VDBs...)
      0
    • More Capsules
      1
    • XPresso (new nodes for TParticles, MoGraph, Dynamics...)
      3
    • Pyro upgrade (Fields integration, Physical density, Colorization based on attributes like velocity...)
      0
    • Dynamics (bridging the new softbody system with the old rigidbody in one system)
      4
    • ΑΙ (rendering, generating textures...)
      3
    • BodyPaint (pipeline wizards/tools for easy game tilemapping, symmetrical brushes...)
      1
    • More Import/Export formats (3D PDF content, MaterialX...)
      0
    • More VFX like Pyro (Granular solver, Fluid solver)
      5

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  • Poll closed on 04/07/2023 at 09:05 AM

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It can't be anything else than generative AI.

 

Developing other features, like capsules or Bodypaint options, seems futile at this stage. Either Cinema 4D mutates into a strong AI CG tool or it will die very quickly.

 

MAXON must act fast.

 

ADOBE is already in the game, with Firefly:

 

https://www.adobe.com/sensei/generative-ai/firefly.html

 

And this Firefly is, in a way, a ferocious competitor to Cinema 4D. It can generate illustration that were typically done with 3D software like Cinema 4D.  The difference ? The results are almost instantaneous ! 

 

Concerning the Physical Renderer. We shouldn't expect upgrades. Maxon already stated that it won't be updated (the development is on hold since 2014).
 

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In my opinion c4d lacks more powerfull animation and rigging tools, such as more flexible animation layers and more advanced skin algorithms like dual quartenion or something similar. xpresso is still very powerfull, however it misses some updates. I really prefer updates like these instead of ai.

 

cheers

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Developing other features, like capsules or Bodypaint options, seems futile at this stage. 

Seems a bit harsh.

 

I think the people who would like C4D's nodes and capsules stuff to reach maturity is bigger than the list of C4D users going, yeah, that will do, it's all good, you can leave it like that, thanks. Same with Bodypaint, the users going, maybe you guys could update it a bit, is bigger than the list of users going, I know it's a couple of decades old now but you can probably leave it where it is, thanks guys.

 

Obviously there will be posters going, hey, I use (insert other app) for painting instead, I'm not bothered if C4D ever does it any more. But this is harsh and if Maxon stuck in a modern workflow to replace the old it would be nice to see.

 

Though I confess I've never done any 3D painting so it's nearly moot to me.

 

Side note, when I randomly Youtube searched 'Blender nodes' or 'Blender material nodes' this past fortnight, there were an absolute ton of tutorials available on Youtube and another big batch available to buy (cheap) just on node stuff. Outside the Core/Cafe node training though, there was one guy who advertised a c4D node course over a year ago. When I wrote him he said he wasn't going to bother recording it until it was clear Maxon had finished the node development, as what would be the point.

 

I will probably resub to C4D in the first half of 2024 as my current job will have wrapped by then, and I'll be at least curious to test out whatever tools Maxon have chucked at it over a year. I'm less certain if Maxon will be getting resubs from me after that. I should generally have my head around Blender and Houdini a bit by then so it will make comparisons nice and easy. All three apps have strong points - I'm increasingly impressed by how much stuff is being chucked at users on the Blender market. Some guy uploaded a cheap but very nice cloud sim, pick from 200+ volumetric clouds of all types, fill your scenes with them. Where's the C4D equivalent? Maybe it's on the way.

 

Blender is just about to rebuild their animation and rigging tools, they announced a two or three year project commencing now to do it. I have not looked at Houdini's rigging at all yet.

Edited by BoganTW (see edit history)
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I voted for Xpresso, because I use Xpresso a lot and it deserves some love.

But I am surprised that "real-time game engine like (e.g. Unreal) renderer" was not an option.

This is what I'd want the most. 

We don't even need something at the same level of Unreal - even something with all the features of Element 3D for After Effects (something from 11 years ago!!!) would be great.

 

U-Render was basically this but sadly they are no more.

I was one of the early beta testers and buyers of U-Render and I was very disappointed when they closed down.

U-render - even in its unfinished form - was amazing with Cinema 4D. 

 

Edited by No One (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, BoganTW said:

Blender is just about to rebuild their animation and rigging tools, they announced a two or three year project commencing now to do it. I have not looked at Houdini's rigging at all yet.

If you want to look at Houdini Rigging stuff, search for KineFX. That's still in development but its already a nice and solid rigging, animation and retargeting solution. But as this is Houdini, you can do more with that thing.

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9 hours ago, BoganTW said:

Seems a bit harsh.

 

I think the people who would like C4D's nodes and capsules stuff to reach maturity is bigger than the list of C4D users going, yeah, that will do, it's all good, you can leave it like that, thanks. Same with Bodypaint, the users going, maybe you guys could update it a bit, is bigger than the list of users going, I know it's a couple of decades old now but you can probably leave it where it is, thanks guys.

 

Obviously there will be posters going, hey, I use (insert other app) for painting instead, I'm not bothered if C4D ever does it any more. But this is harsh and if Maxon stuck in a modern workflow to replace the old it would be nice to see.

 

Though I confess I've never done any 3D painting so it's nearly moot to me.

 

Side note, when I randomly Youtube searched 'Blender nodes' or 'Blender material nodes' this past fortnight, there were an absolute ton of tutorials available on Youtube and another big batch available to buy (cheap) just on node stuff. Outside the Core/Cafe node training though, there was one guy who advertised a c4D node course over a year ago. When I wrote him he said he wasn't going to bother recording it until it was clear Maxon had finished the node development, as what would be the point.

 

I will probably resub to C4D in the first half of 2024 as my current job will have wrapped by then, and I'll be at least curious to test out whatever tools Maxon have chucked at it over a year. I'm less certain if Maxon will be getting resubs from me after that. I should generally have my head around Blender and Houdini a bit by then so it will make comparisons nice and easy. All three apps have strong points - I'm increasingly impressed by how much stuff is being chucked at users on the Blender market. Some guy uploaded a cheap but very nice cloud sim, pick from 200+ volumetric clouds of all types, fill your scenes with them. Where's the C4D equivalent? Maybe it's on the way.

 

Blender is just about to rebuild their animation and rigging tools, they announced a two or three year project commencing now to do it. I have not looked at Houdini's rigging at all yet.

 

 

It sounds a bit harsh but the reality is there.   maxon conceded defeat with some of its tools a long time ago like sculpting and texture painting.   They let apps like Painter, Mari, Zbrush and even Blender develop their respective tools more.    Particles.. they did the same thing.  They let X-Particles continue to grow while they dropped TP.   It's the nature of some of these companies to either buy or develop features then leave them be after a year while they move on to other features.

 

I'd hate to see AI be at the forefront of C4D development.    It's so democratized already with everyone and their mother developing free or embedded tools to create AI.   For Maxon to try to lump in to C4D (probably as a stupid Maxon One *premium* feature) would be wasteful from an R&D perspective.     Also AI (based on the Firefly reference in this thread) would take away from actually doing work INSIDE C4D.      Why spend the time modeling, texturing and rendering assets when I can open up a command prompt and type away.     However, if algorithms were refined in to C4D to help make more intelligent decisions without user intervention like they've done with Remesher, but across other aspects of C4D that would be helpful.  I mentioned before maybe an upscaler in Redshift, or even for imported textures which are maybe only 2k and you want it upscaled to 4k.  Having a button a texture node, or stringing in an upscaler node would be useful.     Or a tweener, where you could render every second or third frame and at the end, have an AI inside C4D generate and render out the in between frames, which would be faster than rendering the whole animation in RS or Octane to begin with.  The tech is already there. There are already some apps that do this.. I think free if I remember correctly.

Regarding Xpresso, I thought Maxon said they were done with it?  Their scene nodes are the future.. just a long distant future... 😛

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9 hours ago, No One said:

But I am surprised that "real-time game engine like (e.g. Unreal) renderer" was not an option.

 

Sorry, totally forgot about it... I fear adding it at this poit in case the system deletes the votes.

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4 hours ago, Jeff H1 said:



Regarding Xpresso, I thought Maxon said they were done with it?  Their scene nodes are the future.. just a long distant future... 😛

 

If I am not mistaken, @srektold us that Xpresso won't be replaced by Scene Nodes because they are very different and made for different things.  

Honestly, I still think Scene Nodes was a mistake. They shoudl have created a Xpresso Plus or something. Why would I learn a seccond Maxon only node language if they abandoned their first one? It's very likely they will do the same with Scene Nodes later on. 

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I'd like a shiny new, full-fat, highly-performant particle system that also enables fluid and granular solvers - preferably working in a unified system with cloth, pyro, etc.

 

I'm tired of paying Insydium and waiting for substantial performance increases.😕 

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The node stuff in C4D will be fun and useful once they get it to where they're taking it to. It could be a low number of years away though, for all we know.

 

Rick Barrett did a video a long time back where he was talking about Scene Nodes, and mentioned that a replacement for the C4D Object Manager was on the way, and would eventually show the full Scene Node workflow in the way that they had planned. "That's coming soon!" he said cheerfully. I forget if this was either two or three years back, maybe two, but it's been a while. And then I look at Blender node stuff and they have their material nodes, and a massive amount of Geometry Nodes, and Houdini has their own great node workflow, so I can either keep waiting for the C4D node stuff to mature, or start learning the node workflows that have already matured. 

 

C4D needs a new updated particle system and part of my (just moderate) interest in re-subbing would be to play with a C4D that has gained some of the features we've been waiting endless years for, but as noted for 2023 I have Blender and Houdini to look at. Blender has so many similarities to C4D (including the interface) that I'm able to learn it in bits and pieces. Houdini I've played with but I really want to put aside a solid three weeks somewhere to just do Houdini and nothing else, for the whole method of it to sink in.

Edited by BoganTW (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, BoganTW said:

Rick Barrett did a video a long time back where he was talking about Scene Nodes, and mentioned that a replacement for the C4D Object Manager was on the way, and would eventually show the full Scene Node workflow in the way that they had planned.

 

I hope they don't mess with Object Manager. It is the best in the industry. Blender literaly copied it from C4D. There are room for im[provements but if they go too far away with the nodes stuff they will destroy what I see as one of the main features of Cinema 4D: the Object Manager.

 

Every time I have to work with a complex scene in Maya I curse and wish Maya had C4D Object Manager and tag system.

Edited by No One (see edit history)
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