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Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?


Fastbee

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This is symptomatic. Where are the big guns?

I don't even know if there are any big guns or if they're all water pistols?

I've heard it said the original coders of C4D were coding geniuses. The thing is I have very little evidence that this is the case. I see groundbreaking developments happening away from C4D. If MAXON are content for C4D to be a me too product that's fine but they shouldn't be surprised when customer look elsewhere.

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Wow, you guys really don't get it, do you...

I am not a punching bag.

I am more than happy to put up with certain levels of aggressiveness, and respond in a completely unbiased manner.

But when I have tried to interact with someone, on a subject that I can change, and they continue to complain that we do not engage in "jaw jaw" while completely ignoring my requests for feedback, then I am more than happy to bring up "jaw jaw" as something I am actively trying to do.

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I would like to see siggraph presentations from senior MAXON developers involved with the product development and direction. I'm not interested in marketing presentations I'd like to hear from the organ grinders not the monkeys and hear about their plans and directions for C4D just like Autodesk have done.

Does your "pretty decent" influence stretch to Germany?

For NAB and Siggraph, we like to focus on you guys - the artists. You really deserve your chance in the spotlight, and really we feel it's more beneficial for artists to see how other artists use the tools.

The folks in Germany plan the slate for IBC - they tend to feature a fair number of partners as well, but it's still a very artist-centric lineup.

I'll definitely pursue some presentations regarding future development and direction, although honestly I think there's better and more immediate ways of communicating that. 

 

 

 

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I'll definitely pursue some presentations regarding future development and direction, although honestly I think there's better and more immediate ways of communicating that. 

 

 

 

Thank you that would be most helpful.

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For NAB and Siggraph, we like to focus on you guys - the artists. You really deserve your chance in the spotlight, and really we feel it's more beneficial for artists to see how other artists use the tools.

The folks in Germany plan the slate for IBC - they tend to feature a fair number of partners as well, but it's still a very artist-centric lineup.

I'll definitely pursue some presentations regarding future development and direction, although honestly I think there's better and more immediate ways of communicating that. 

Rick, with all due respect, you can call it "artist-focused" but really it just means "the same behaviors which got us to the place we're at with customers".  If you'd rather provide the future development and direction communication in a more immediate manner, that's great, but so far that hasn't happened, and until it does us customers have little basis for thinking it will.  My point is, if the responses to every request for development and direction info are "we prefer to use this venue for other purposes" (basically a negative response), and we receive no actual designation of which venues will provide the requested development info, what about MAXON's communication has actually changed from a customer perspective?

I understand that you cannot single-handedly provide such info, and that such changes will not happen overnight, but the "overnight" trope is also beginning to ring a bit "hollow" (it's been months).  Addressing the requests for info on direction and development goals need to be MAXON's top priority because quite clearly customers have indicated that is what they want from MAXON.  Unless and until there's some solid movement in that area, hearing about more "artist-focused" presenters just isn't likely to be well-received by customers -- in part, because it comes across as (and frankly, IS) customers being told all the places MAXON won't give us the info we've requested, without MAXON telling us where that info will be provided.  

Can you understand where customers are coming from on that?

I think we all appreciate your and Pat's positions, but ultimately, if customers don't see actual evidence of MAXON improving customer communications and delivering what's been requested, then nobody should be the least bit surprised on either side when customers' level of upset increases across the board.  Customers won't be interested in "giving credit" for effort put into areas they consider much lower priority, if that occurs without any concrete evidence of effort towards the topic areas we consider HIGH priorities, because from our perspective nothing will have visibly improved.  Asking us to give credit for things happening behind the scenes, and for which we have no reliable indication, just is not reasonable.

 

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I know we were already behind in communication when this all came to a head a few months ago, and I appreciate your patience. I think now that we've gotten R17 out the door we're in a better position to change the communication strategy.

I'm not looking for credit - it's just disappointing when I continue to read posts that say stuff like "MAXON isn't interested in communicating" or "MAXON won't talk to us". I realize you're not yet getting the info you want to hear, but I and a few others are putting a lot of effort into communicating. 

I merely mentioned the artist focus because there was the implication that we put a bunch of marketing people on the podium - and nothing could be further from the truth. Also, like you, I don't want to wait for next April for this communication to happen.

I do get where you're all coming from, and I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from. I know you want more forthright and direct communication on what we're doing and plan to do in development. I can assure you that 'fixing' user communication is a top priority at MAXON - to the extent that I'm travelling to Germany the week after next for meetings.

So lets try this - what specific questions would you like addressed, beyond some insight into the over-arching development strategy?

 

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I'm trying awfully hard. I'm spending a lot of time here, on CGTalk and on the MDA slack trying to improve the communication. People seem to love that competitors are sending them targeted emails, but complain when we do the same thing. I realize MAXON has dug itself a hole with regards to communication and we have to win back goodwill, but Cutman's tone is disheartening. It feels like MAXON can never do enough to win back some people here, and perhaps that's true. But it's really difficult to read posts like this that ignore all the effort that's being put towards changing the situation.

Be sure everybody notice your involvement but when I talk about communication it's more about act. Talking about Maya, they made massive updates with only few releases regarding to speed (viewport 2.0, Parallel Rig Evaluation), UI (complete new artist friendly UI, node based material), modelling (modeling toolkit, promising sculpting technology), particles (bifrost), UV tools to name a few and now they directly address motion designer needs (new type tool, Mash acquisition). Showing us each year artists at NAB, Siggraph or IBC is nice but you are still unable to give us any clues about any Bodypaint development, sorry but compared to the competition it's just laughable. 

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when I talk about communication it's more about act.

And that's really a big part of the reason the 'big' answers are coming slower. As we start to peel away the curtain more, we want to make sure it's not just lipservice. We'd much rather show you evidence of what's being worked on than give you empty promises. Words may have to suffice in the short-term, but hopefully not for too long.

 

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We do appreciate your efforts but frankly this is becoming a repeat of the previous period where Srek and Hsrdelic periodically popped into threads to complain that we weren't giving MAXON enough credit for 'listening'. I got sick of hearing that phrase.

I know nothing more about MAXON's plans and what to look forward to as a paying customer today then I did back in the Spring when this all started.

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Lets give MAXON the benefit of the doubt. Now that R17 is out and as Rick Berrett clearly stated that he's flying to Germany to attend to meetings addressing this issue. A company doesn't change these policies over night. 

So lets try this - what specific questions would you like addressed, beyond some insight into the over-arching development strategy?

 

For starters, I'd like to know if MAXON is planning to have their own forum. This would be the most clear signal on wanting to communicate more with their customers.

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For starters, I'd like to know if MAXON is planning to have their own forum. This would be the most clear signal on wanting to communicate more with their customers.

+1 That what I talked before, at MAXON they are still wondering how to communicate with their users whereas the competition seems already to be one step ahead. Frankly it's sad to ask something that seems so natural elsewhere. Something like Autodesk feature requests and small annoying things forum would be a good start indeed.

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A trip to Germany is necessary? Peeling away the curtain? 

Seriously? This isn't the cold war.You people aren't developing a nuclear device.

Let's try this - I'll take Bodypaint as an example as a lot of user frustration is centered there. 

A. We're working on upgrading Bodypaint and we'd like to unroll the new version in R18 but we aren't making any promises, this is a complicated piece of software.

B. We're working on upgrading Bodypaint and we'd like to unroll the new version in R19 but we aren't making any promises, this is a complicated piece of software.

C. We're working on upgrading Bodypaint and we'd like to unroll the new version sometime after R19 but we aren't making any promises, this is a complicated piece of software.

D. We have no current plans to improve or replace Bodypaint.

You have to fly to Germany to get clearance to choose one of those options? That's ridiculous. Think about it. One of the phrases A to D is correct. Why can't you just tell us which one it is and stop playing games. Pick up the phone and call Germany and get permission and then come back to this thread and say: B is the correct answer. Or C, or D, or whatever.

Monty Python could have scripted this whole dilemma better.

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