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******* hell. We get a modifier Stack which is a node system at the same time? How awesome is that? They merge the best of Maya and Max into C4D... Plus that they added like ten of my feature requests 😆

I dont understand, this has been the same things said over the past years, since the subscription model was adopted. "Hey, this is cool little quality of life improvements, I like it" . Yeah, I get it, maybe this will be useful on the long haul, but this is not a substantial improvement on the software core elements, this is again, eyecandy. "Hey, take these presets, and be happy buddy, now you can do this quickly without having to think too much" This is even more real when you look at our friendly neighbour, Blender, with constant updates, and amazingly implementing new technology, not just UI changes, with a much better frequency, and a sensation that they are ACTUALLY listening to its user base. MAXON is doing none of that. This update was supposed to be "hey, you have switched to our subscription model, exchanged your nice and perpetual software and we are now holding your files at a cost, and should you wish to ever open this in the future, you better keep paying us, forever.. and ever...and..ever..." So now the process after this minimal update is the same: Pay again the maintance price for Redshift to have a compatible render engine to the latest update (Redshift who also have tunnel vision on their RT development and didnt improved much over the past year). Pay again for maintance for X-Particles to make sure it works with this last version... Rinse and repeat for every other plugin you have bought and needs, again, a maintance payment. (because now every company love to milk you for subscription money, and it will be a bit too late for you, when you realise you own nothing, but are paying a LOT each month) I have never felt so frustrated with a company before, and I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot, who is supposed to fork over any credit card I have to pay for this absurd price of a subscription, just so I can continue to open my files, having paid jobs or not. And at the same time, I should be actually happy and greatful for this, because... hey... - Grid fades based on distance (Hurraaayy)

I don't want to belabor this further, but MAXON's concern for the environment and association with Treedom predates the rise of popularity of NFTs. We were all gifted trees at the end of last year, and I'm getting regular updates on my Columbian coffee tree. While the relationship existed previously, the concerns over the environmental impact of NFTs prompted us to invest further and to use our platform to involve all of our environmental-conscious users in Treedom as well. Also, you seem to think we built this release around NFTs or around Beeple's workflow. It's true that many of the features are ideal for typical NFT workflows, as is Cinema 4D as a whole. I think many C4D artists have been successful in everydays and NFTs explicitly because Cinema 4D offers a fast, easy and integrated workflow that's ideal for completing projects in a short timeframe. Those same qualities are the reason the vast majority of our users have chosen Cinema 4D, so it was a natural choice to improve the workflow for finding and adding assets to user's scenes. And these features were conceived last summer, long before NFTs became a thing.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. But on my part, nothing really got lost on translation. it was pretty clear what the message was, but what agravated me the most was the "keep the positive attitude, lets not focus on the negative" mentality. If you are trying to do something positive for the environment, in an attempt to offset all the harm that NFT is causing to it, then MAXON needs to be open to discuss this issue, obviously, in a open and civilized manner. But not discourage people from having a negative opinion about it. "Lets not focus on the negative" is not going to suddenly make this problem disappear, and planting trees, in an attempt to offset a little the harm NFT is causing, without actually discussing this issue, becomes a shallow PR attempt of pre-damage control if we dont talk about the "negative", and not really a genuine worry about global environment. Furthermore, I dont think MAXON should be taking a stand on this, I know Beeple made the headlines everywhere, even outside the art world, but why this artist now became the biggest focus for MAXON, even creating a whole update on the software, targeting the kind of content that he creates? So why now, on top of all that, MAXON becomes an advocate for NFT?

Actually, both the timeslider and the range slider are just controls in a bog standard two-row toolbar. You can create a new toolbar, drag the range slider into that one, and arrange all three components as you like:

While you guys are arguing I'm having a total blast with those place tools, wohoowww 🤘

There we go ! Someone else who appreciates the brilliance of that ! lols 🙂 CBR

Dear Cerbera, I get your point but aren't you tired of "smaller changes and improvements"? Seems like the discussions are still very much the same year after year...We don't even have a working render engine anymore unless you are ok to wait the whole night for a still render like we used to 10 years ago. Looks like a sinking boat with passengers debating over the quality of their dinner.

I see where you're coming from and I understand what you mean. Thing is, nowadays caring about the environment is the hip thing to do for companies. One might even use the term greenwashing. That said, I think every bit of environmental protection that is actually being done is a good thing in my book. I can very clearly distinguish between a company and their product, I can do the same for an artist and his art. So honestly said, I don't give a damn what MAXON associate themselves with unless it's way out of taste. I think you know what I mean with that. That said, I do understand if you can't or don't want to distinguish between the two. One more thing on NFTs: What bothers me about this entire thing is that we're in a field that uses TONS of energy. I mean, we're literally throwing 100% usage CPUs and GPUs at pixels until there's a pretty image at the end. To me that is not far from what NFTs are doing. They are the result of a problem in the digital space and I can't wait to see how this stuff develops. That said, I think it's important to invest in a system that isn't as wasteful as it is right now.

In the Node Editor - Edit Menu. Convert Current Scene State to Classic.

I'm afraid something got lost in translation. The message was and is that we want to encourage and cheer for any new opportunity for our artists to succeed, but we're also very aware of the environmental impact. We want to make a positive impact to counter the environmental effects of NFTs. As such we're making a donation to Treedom, which plants trees to offset carbon emissions.

Watching the live presentation on youtube from MAXON, was... an experience. I've already given my opinion regarding what I thought of this update in previous pages, but it is clear that Beeple's artworks were a big influence on these new features. Everything focused so we dont have to go on turbosquid and download premade assets, things are made much easier to produce quick instagram/NFT artwork and get those sweet ETH's. (Who cares about the evironment, the questionable scheme and unregulated system and questionable, very questionable taste of beeples artworks, am I right?) And hey, more artists making NFT's more chances to get the MAXON name out on the next million dollar purchase of NFT's? Sweet! But on top of all this, the thing that upset me the most, was the "please, stay postive, be positive, have a positive attitude and we will reward you with a 'NFtee-shirt... ' It is by far, one of the most disgusting things I've seen so far. No MAXON, environment doesnt work like that, there is no such thing as "We guys, we should stop being negative about NFT's.. hey, LOOK, we are planting trees!" And attempting to treat us like obeying little boys and girls, attempting to discourage us of having a strong opinion. And pretend we are impressed by your obvious attempt to disguise your sideing with NFT. After 13 years using C4D, this is the biggest incentive I needed to move on to a different software. The subpar update on this expensive software alone was already a good reason by itself. But on top of all that, having to hear "Hey, if you are a positive boy, we reward you with a t-shirt" it is... something else. This "Behave and be positive" attitude really shows that deep down, the company is aware of which side on this issue is taking. But if you shush and be quiet about it, you get a nice t-shirt, and they will plant a tree! And just for the sake of argument regarding Beeple. here are some of his artworks that were sold in his 69 million dollars NFT sale. https://news.artnet.com/opinion/beeple-everydays-review-1951656/amp-page?__twitter_impression=true Hopefully MAXON doesnt focus on these works from Beeple for the next C4D update?

Currently it allows a basic hierarchy based workflow to create cloning and deforming setups. Fields are not part of this and the effectors are partly a bit rudimentary. As a Tech Demo it is meant to create awareness of the flexibility of the new system. It is very easy for a user, or third party, to introduce new objects, effectors, distributions etc. that immediately fit seamless into the existing environment. Anyone can create and include new assets that provide new functionality and they behave like built in elements, provided the creator made the effort to implement them correctly. At this time i would not recommend using it for real projects, the main problem is not reliabitliy or ability, but interaction with older Cinema 4D parts. You are very restricted when it comes to rendering and especially compositing. If however you simply need a huge amount of polys animated it might do the job for you.

Oh MAXON, try harder. Stop sending your paid actors. 🥴

especially the people that pay subscription are not just "allowed" to criticize but they have to, as they can not just skip one version to show the company that they don't like the way things are going. Therefor they have to be loud. That is also one side of the subscription model. This is one of the reasons why people get negative. there are many more, like the relatively small updates because of the fast update circle (so this doesn't just have advantages, too) or the comparison with blenders development speed. then we have decisions by MAXON. for example to put a lot of energy into the new core (which I like) and not to change or improve any feature that will be dependent of the new core in the future (which I dont like considering the long long time this already has taken). there is a LOT of features that need a revision. It is a difficult situation MAXON is in and I can see the reasons for their decisions (even If I of course would maybe do things differently) There is just one thing, that I really do not understand. As MAXON is in the moment feature wise not developing like the competition why are they not trying to generate good will (for example by integrating Redshift into c4d at the same price) and why are they alienating their perpetual customers. There would be ways to generate more positive feedback but they prefer to remove features without replacement, hold off customers year after year (we are developing something great for the future), to rationalize the (in my case) great service of their resellers away and increase the prices for perpetual licenses for former MSA customers. I think customers well have reasons to complain. best regards Jops

@FLima Please don't take anything I say as a personal attack on your opinion, or as trivialising your frustrations - I do understand them, and share them in some cases (symmetry most notably) ! I too have paid an astonishing amount of money for Cinema over the years, and I am not immune to the frustration caused by things not working as they should, or not being addressed until the long(er) term. But I just see so many people being negative on release day, I just want to be one of the people pointing out the positive things that there are, and like I said above, I find enough of those on an ongoing basis to keep me generally happy. I realise of course that won't be the same for everyone... CBR

I think the over simplification on this case is what gets me. This feels like you are talking to an mistakenly entitled fanboy of a popular rpg game of sorts. We are paying for this software, I am 40 years old and my life's work when it comes to 3D has a .c4d extension attached to it. If you managed to simply switch softwares and are having a good time right now, well, good for you. I feel like I earned my right to be upset when I feel not enough is being done by the software I depend on to work. And I feel that everyone is entitled to complain for something they pay a lot, and are feeling that their requests are falling into deaf ears. So please, dont over simplify this as a matter of "if you are unhappy, shut up and get out" I've invested on this! My time, my life, my money, all the necessary plugins to make the software work in a professional manner. And to answer Cerbera's position So whilst yes, I understand the frustration that people feel about lack of big new exciting things in every version, I find my happiness with the program relies on that sort of thing less and less all the time it remains a supremely comfortable and familiar place to work. I am not a kid that needs a "shiny exciting new feature" every update or release, What I want is quite the opposite, I want the core elements on the software to improve! Things that are there to begin with, but doesnt work efficiently right now. I want dynamics to have a new and effective engine. I want an actual useful Interactive render region, that is actually.. real time, and not this slow and clumky mess we currently have. Something that people working with NPR workflow can benefit directly. We need symmetry! What about Bodypaint? a forgotten part of the software! Remember the change on UV unwrap? That is the kind of change that we need. Not.. freaking.. horizon grid disappearing or the hability to use chromatic aberration inside the viewport..

I think this is actually a very helpful and promising update. Very exciting future modelling things going on over in Scene Manager (Modifier Stack anyone?). Lovely new Viewport (Direct X at last) so no more jaggy poly lines, all the brilliant scatter and placement tools, (which people have been wanting for a while), the live dynamics of which are massively helpful, and rather a lot of very welcome smaller changes, fixes and improvements to existing every day / quality-of-life stuff. Personally, I like it. CBR

That new MAXON logo is a miserable designed by committee fail IMHO... Quote (italics are mine): "Senior Brand Manager... designed the logo under the direction of MAXON’s executive team."

sooooooooo.... again.... no bp, no sclupt, no uv (cant handle high poly at this moment), no xpresso, no redshift, no old renderers update, no bake tools no no no no no. lot lot lot of "NO" versus some placement tools and lıbrary content? yeah also remember. no particles, no dynamics of no fluids updates.... i hope this video is small part of whats coming... in other way sory but blender does much more in .01 updates on every few months.

This has got to be one of the most lackluster update ever.. . So, is this the "treat" for people who are subscribing, and supporting the software? More eyecandy features, but nothing really extremely substantial and essential to the software? Adding a new dynamic engine... fixing bodypaint.. changing the performance of the viewport and adding a realtime render engine to it... adding a proper symmetry... the list goes on and on. This update to me is.. they want to make it even easier for you to be the "next" beeple. Quickly grab those Donald Trumps and Hillary Clinton models, thowing without much work any biped preset animation, change hands here and there...drag and drop more models in your scene, and there ya go, mint your work and be rich with NFT's. This is really, really disappointing.

I dont really feel like getting into the NFT debate here as of, right now, it is certain that it does have an negative effect on the environment (the only uncertainty is the actual amount of damage, as it varies from many different sources of this information). But of course, you can also see the good news about NFT's (which are usually conveniently shared by Opensea and any other website that operates with it), But if NFT's are not bad for the environment, why is MAXON suddenly decided to plant trees? Suddenly Global Warming became a concern? Right now, NFT is a cloudy and touchy subject, you obviosly have your stance on it, and I have mine, and that is perfectly fine. I will not try to change your mind about it, and you wont change mine either. But my point is, I dont want to be discussing about it on a software release, the software that I rely on with my professional life? And I really have an issue when a company focus so much on this kind of thing, and on a specific professional, that suddenly, an entire update of this software is around this!

I like the New Logo I like DirectX now being used I love the new Place tools (thank you) I like the Scene editor I like the Shadow trick to eyeball placement (very helpful) I like the Dynamic Fill and Scatter Pen.. For my workflow I like this release!

He won't get a Treeshirt !! 'Keep it positive...' LOL! PS: Could someone call the makeup and presentation skills department for Mr McGavran please...

The scene manager looks really great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO4reHoUHI&t=1s I was hoping for something like the new nodes for years, and I like what I am seeing. Unfortunately the killing of Prime ended my upgrade path at R21. Hopefully MAXON decides that hobby users and new talents are also important and should not be pushed completely towards *some other software*. Would love to test this new stuff out at some point. The rest looks also decend!

One , very, big thing i forgot, the modeling stack is fully functional and allows for quite poweful procedural polygon modeling.

I assume you guys can see where this is going... I'm placing a bet that R25 will see the introduction of the C4D asset store : ) I hope it isn't subscription only ; ) - stop paying and your sofa/chair/bathtub/lamp/bookcase disappears from your scene LOL!

Yep, I'd have to second that. They really do listen, and there's a hell of a lot of people shouting for their attention, so I reckon they do quite well to listen as much as they do ! 😉 CBR

Well no, not really ! As primarily a traditional modeller, Cinema already does nearly everything I want it to (some notable exceptions remain, but most have adequate workarounds and I am quite patient), and continues to look better while it's doing it with every version ! Broadly speaking, they fixed modelling around R18, Nodal Materials arrived, Volume building got integrated, they fixed UVs more recently, Fields got introduced (which was fundamentally massive for me) and I have never hated Physical Render as much as everyone else seems to ! My renders in that don't take all night, and with a little optimisation and attention to settings I still get pretty reasonable times out of it, so am not even massively unhappy there ! I also quite like the tech preview approach because it means we can all hit the ground running when it's fully implemented, and see what the future has in store, which, for me at least is GENUINELY promising because it is a serious leap forward in terms of things I care about like procedural, and stack-based modelling and the idea of a single integrated nodal approach, as long as it doesn't happen at the expense of traditional modelling tools, which I hope always remain and are not neglected in the longer term. So whilst yes, I understand the frustration that people feel about lack of big new exciting things in every version, I find my happiness with the program relies on that sort of thing less and less all the time it remains a supremely comfortable and familiar place to work. It's the little things that make me smile every day. CBR

anyone uses nodes interface with redshift? it still not supports c4d shaders for redshift. i am still using xpresso interface for redshift mats. still all tutorials i see all shows/uses xpresso interface... 3 releases before MAXON buy redshift. and still not integrated fully... also on the features page, lot of videos from r14 for showing features like sclupt.....its weird only for me???? you release s24's and features page contains a old videos about features. videos from r14..... yeah very innovative way to tell customers: " hey look at that. still same since r14 its like lada niva: goes ages but never changes..."

It feels like MAXON really aims for fast working (C4D) and fast rendering (Redshift) at the moment, which is a direction I really approve of. I personally want to work as fast as possible, which can be a bit tedious in 3D at times. The placement tools are absolutely perfect for that, I have spent so much time lining up stuff while setting up interiors this is absolutely great. It's mostly basic changes this time, that don't seem very fancy, but they are very thought-through from terms of workflow improvement. I can finally abandon the connecter software and do my tag searches for objects in the content browser, which is also great. And I really think that ex-3DSMAX people will like that there is now a modifier stack. Although of course they should be addressing the symmetry issue, but other than that I am quite happy with the new improvements. (Maybe the symmetry has become a meme inside the MAXON offices and they just find it funny? who knows)

I like the release, too. Those updates aren't groundbraking, but will save a lot of time on different jobs.

Those S mid-year updates were meant to reward the subscription buyers and be a strong incentive to switch. Frankly I don’t see anything worth switching and those who did might feel slightly swindled or cheated.

I guess we dont have to wait for too long for the anouncement of S24.. I think.. after these "exciting" announcements.. I will go to sleep.

Apart from what we wish for this software we must be realistic and try to see what is MAXON's real goal and what should we be expecting. To do this we also must see what is happening in the other 3d software packages. C4d along with houdini is the main package for motion graphics and an industry standard in broadcast, advertisement, design studios, motion studios etc. MAXON will try to defend this status since it's the main profit branch so it will include more stuff dedicated to motion (scene nodes inluded) and also the reason why its buying red giant etc. Also c4d is know for it's easy approach so the stuff we'll see it's probably gonna be not very technnical. in my opinion MAXON will try to consolidate its presence in this side of the industry in order to keep blender away and to distinguish itself from houdini, since its an easier and more compreensive software. the other commercial software packages are kinda doing the same. in their own game. Autodesk 3ds max is boosting its modelling tools and also developing better material editor in an effort to maintain its status as modelling and render king. However, it relies in two major 3d party softs. Vray and recently tyflow. Without those two max is just and old software with good modellling tools but nothing special. Also autodesk is not introducing nothing new besides these features. max doesn't have a decent take system, nor a decent xref system, nor volume modelling etc. The list goes on. And you have to rely on lots of third party software. Maya is the same, they boost rigging/animation tools since its main business but besides that i dont see much. They dont upgrade their motion graphic tools , or everything else. and its crashes a lot (kinda buggy) Houdini is the main competitor for c4d in my opinion. apart from modelling, sculpting and character animation and rigging it is a stronger software but its hard to learn, and is a lot slower to produce results comparing to c4d in small advertisement projects. However i think they favour the development of vfx tools apart from anything else, since its main profit . Basicaly every company do the same as MAXON. They develop their software according to their commercial needs in order to defend their status in each industries, and if that status is gonne that software is as good as dead. We all want better tools that can do everything and in the end to pay the lowest price as possible. I think its very difficult to do that. Sometimes it's just better to learn a second soft and use it to complement (if needed). For motion graphics / advertisement etc, c4d will be a safe bet and with good tools. For everything else i think it will depend. My guess is that character animation will receive some better tools also. (and i hope) cheers

Hi, I just signed up here and wanted to say hello. I´m a guy from Spain with some background in video editing and a very little one in 3D software (mostly 3D Max)). I started learning C4D (or trying to) two weeks ago and I´m blown away by it´s features and power. Makes me feel overwhelmed and kinda lost, with a lot of questions and doubts with every step I take, but hopefully I´ll get something out of it xD This video is the only finished project I have, and is something made to be consumed with friends, so it´s not a professional work. It has a lot of mistake both because of that and the fact that I´m totally new, so feel free to criticize. 🙂

Thanks a lot guys. It's great you share your experience here. Now at least I have several options for testing. I hope it will work. I will let you know.

Regarding Redshift Assets I wanted to mention that while they're aren't any included currently in the MAXON-provided library, it's easy to add your own. The Asset Browser automatically tracks dependencies and will flag any Redshift materials with a special icon. You can build a smart search based on the dependency to for instance easily pull up Redshift metals. I'm sure in time we'll add Redshift materials to the online library as well.

CBR

Yeah there is. Which is why I was trying to lighten the mood a little 😄

It would be and always has been. This should have happened years ago and to this day I do not understand what their problem is with Indie licensing.

This! Omg... thank you! You summarized my frustration perfectly. This and the price of the current subscription. I know that the subscription is almost pocket money for a big studio in Europe or US. But for Brazil, a one-man freelancer, who has also paid for render engine, xparticles, etc... and their subsequent maintance payments. This is a lot to ask, with so little to offer in exchange. Having an indie option would lower a LOT these expectations and the feeling Im not getting enough.

I get it, people get annoyed when a software they love gets compared to a different software. And by no means, I ever attacked any MAXON developer or accused them of being lazy. This would've been absurd on my part and definitely not my intention here at all. And to be honest, if this wasnt a subscription model, I wouldnt think I would be this upset right now... But it is the business model that gets me you know? This bread crumbs of updates in exchange of the constant payment that we are required to make. This changes the dynamic of things, specially when you can (and I believe you have to) compare with other softwares. I dont want to turn this into a Maya vs Blender vs C4D debate, this is not it.

But I guess we cant be critical about things here, we are only allowed to say nice things about C4D? "Oh wait, are you frustrated with the software you have paid so much for? How dare you!"

I have several subscriptions and I don't feel cheated. Great tools for placing objects in the scene, also taking into account physics. For us, it is a great acceleration of work. Plus great tweaks to the animation keys. And a ready-made rig for the car, right now when we need it! 🙂

Well, I like the update. The UI changes is one to get used to, but I understand why it's changed. Also, all of my plugins and scripts are still working fine.

Hello, since Cinema 4d S24 has now been officially released, I can now announce that Terraform4D, the art-directable terrain generation system for Cinema 4D, is now available for S24, too! Your existing activation key will continue to work, as long as S24 is installed on the same machine. Just download the S24 build of Terraform4D from the website: https://terraform4d.com Best greetings, Frank @Terraform4D

Lol, yes, he really is clueless!

I don't understand where MAXON is going. A lot of very basic things are not working, but instead of fixing it MAXON is presenting more advanced systems like nodes. And they don't work either. I doubt that Scene Nodes will change anything. What else to expect? Complete overhaul of rigging? Nah it won't happen. Integrated post-production with RedGiant plugins? Nope. Redshift integration? LoL. Painting, PBR, Sculpting? Nope, no and no again. "We are working on Core" so don't forget to buy another 1k license.

If MAXON purchased Insydium, then I would feel good about paying the annual $1000 for a perpetual upgrade as you would gain both Cycles GPU and a kick- particle, fluid dynamics, n-systems physics engine. But honestly, I feel that MAXON has more to gain by that acquisition than does Insydium -- so it probably will not happen. X-Particles is about 50% of the reason why I have not bolted to Blender. The Insydium team has just done a tremendous job with their pace of development, training, and being very fair with their upgrade pricing. Doesn't Insydium also push out a new release around this time of year as well? Their releases have yet to let me down --- always very exciting. Dave