Jops

I hope you make your result public ?! I am quite shure, that there are quite some others that would like to revert the icons.

You are right, the lack of acknowledgement is fueling this discussion. But it hardly can be expected from srek to admit a mistake of the company. That would be the job of the CEO. But we will not see that.

I think that even if R25 would have been packed with the best features and overhauls of old features people still would be bewildered why a UI change like this was necessary. But with it being the main feature the new UI can be as good as it wants to be the perception that maxon doesn't listen to its customers that didn't complain about the UI but about many other things for years persists. some might get the impression, that the UI change was inflated to at least get one major feature into the release. the (maybe necessary) change of the user interface mechanics might have been better received if the old icons where used. Then people would get the chance to at least visually find their way into the new interface.

You are right, that the perseption changes over time, and that statements on Youtube tend to be over the top. I looked for equivalent videos for R21 and before and just could find this one from R19. The statements there tend to be quite a bit friendlier though.

@BoganTW I have the impression, that the perception of the situation of perpetual and subscription, has a lot to do with the history different people have with C4D. Out of curiosity may I ask you how long you use C4D and what version you currently are at? best regards Jops

I think that it is acceptable to charge a small fee. But fist i find the fee to high, second it is just a another treat for the perpetuals. an third: I unfortunately do not believe that this argument is valid. You could senior mangement make do this job, then you can charge even more. 🙂 And The person that sells the license might as well have supported the company for 20 years. But in return doesn't get supported by the company when he wants to maybe sell one of his licenses.

A person in germany earning 6500€ before taxes costs a company in west germany round about 82€/h including all costs for desks, computers, coffee and so on. looks like a lot of work to me when one license swap takes more than 2 hours. Microsoft could dry the swamp of second hand licenses (that they hate) just by inventing such a fee like this. But they might see problems with the right to sell used software in the EU.

I want to support everything you said today. You can express yourself much better than I can in a foreign language. But you nailed it. Thanks

i'm sorry, but this hardly qualifies as a conversation. notification would probably be a more appropriate term. in principle, it confirms my post above. The discussion just knows one direction. Funny how important the vivid community is in the marketing and how unimportant some few guys in there forum bubble are.

maybe I just don't have access to all those MSA customers that where begging for higher perpetual prices, all those users that where fed up with their access to cineversity or those that where screaming for a new UI. as I said before, you are responsible for the reactions of your customers. If you don't like the reactions, then you can change something. But if you don't change anything, don't be upset by the reactions.

Yes, and I have absolutely nothing against you as a private person and I like to look back to this evening. But I have to accept that even though I told you about all this problems and feelings that come up now, right in the beginning, absolutely nothing has changed. You now take 175€ for a perpetual license transition? Look the only person that can change the way your customers feel and therefore react is you. As long as you squeeze them they will squeak. And even though I'm not proud of the tone of my last post, that I wrote while I was tired and hungry. I unfortunately think that it basically is true. And I find this disappointing. I think that giving a hard but honest feedback is much harder than just be cheering, but it never the less is no sign of antipathy. If i wouldn't love C4D and If I haven't met you I might just don't care. But this way I just don't understand. I think and already postet it, that capsules is super promising and I find it very shortsighted by many to not realize that. And I just can imagine what a fight it is to power through the new core and I adore this effort, but I find it hard to understand why it is important to at the same time fight your customers. best regards Jops

listening in the sense of reading yes. listening in the sense of trying to understand and find a solution .... no. And therefor you are right, the result is generally not a conversation.

dear kbar, i appreciate your contributions and your opinion very much. I am all the more surprised that you are of the opinion that one should please stop expressing one's opinion aloud after a certain time at the latest, because it doesn't help anyway. one should rather move on. I'm not sure if you expect the same from your own customers. By the way, my post was mainly about marketing and the, in my opinion, tendentious communication with customers.

maybe you could consider reading my post again? I am not talking about the core rewrite at all (which is a good thing) I am talking about the marketing and the communication of the offerings. And these things have drastically changed since McGravan took over. There was a lot of hope back then that communication could change for the better, but unfortunately the inaccessibility before just was exchanged for mediocre marketing blah blah now.

unfortunately thats not the priority anymore. They care about money. Even when they try to compensate it with very mediocer marketing blah blah (sorry, but it is true). That Money benefits mainly the managers that get Bonuses and the mother companies shareholders. For the normal employer (that might even hang around here) this brings not much more but worse mooded customers. And for the Customers it is tiring to always be taken for a fool. By statements like the "This is just untrue..." further up (marketing blah blah). Maxon can easily write a disclamer on the website that just explanes the situation clear and true and let the customer decide on real facts instead of info snippets that lures customers to buy or rent and lets them hang out to dry when they realise that they gave away their perpetual license for some month of subscription for example. Maxon more and more feels like a used car dealer where you have to crawl under the car and check everything they say, if that was the whole truth and after buying find out what they didn't tell you or what you didn't find. that for example functionality was removed without exchange. let mi try a true text example (I give Maxon the allowance to use it or get inspirited by it): you can Buy a perpetual version of C4D: that means you get the last R version that was released and maybe one bugfix update after 3 month or so. All features that are defined as beta or tech demo stay beta or tech demo. further you will not get any other update or bugfix whatsoever. you don't get access to cineversity or any other features that are subscription only. the perpetuity of the license might be limited by the accessibility to the activation server. or you can rent C4D with a subscription: subscription is cheaper, you get access to the latest version of C4D and all features that are subscription right now for example cineversity. These services might change while you are subscribed. you are not entitled to a defined amount of developement that goes into C4D nor any amount or type of feature. If you stop subscription you loose access to your files and there is no way to access these files again without resubscribing or buying a perpetual license. No matter how long your subscription was. If you are unhappy with the way C4D develops you can do basically nothing without loosing access to you files. You might complain in forums, but that has proven to be of little effect. of course this is just a example of a no Bullshit text 🙂 If it should sound nicer without adding bullshit or removing truth maxon of course just could change their offers that are described in the text.