3D-Pangel

​Let's try to be a bit more balanced here.  I think MAXON knows who they need to satisfy and that is probably the major graphic houses where C4D satisfies a piece of their production pipeline.  In fact, I think MAXON's entire business strategy is focused on getting into those production pipelines and that is why they are busy working on integration with Side Effects, Next Limit, Allegorithmic, etc. software than improving core tools for the single user.  Why upgrade Bodypaint when Mari is the tool of choice in a production pipeline?  Remember that production houses purchase many seats of C4D, and one seat of C4D costs the same whether the employees are using the whole package or just MoGraph.  Also, think of where MoGraph would sit in a production pipeline and that may explain why features at the front of the pipeline (like texturing) or back of the pipeline (like network rendering) got less love over time.

This is the only explanation I can think for the direction that MAXON has taken in the past few years.  Unfortunately, the individual user or small studio suffers with those decisions as we represent a very small part of the overall user-base.  I would like to believe that they do listen to us (I trust Hrvoje when he tells us this), but we are low on the priority list because we just don't represent that much in sales. Everyone on this forum is probably an individual user and that is why we are so frustrated.

MAXON does hear us.  MAXON does care.  But the amount of money we represent to MAXON does not keep the lights on or pay employee's salaries, so our needs and wants are last on the list.  It's that simple.  No one likes to be told that they are a low priority and that is why it is better for MAXON to have such a tight NDA and remain so silent. 

Relative to buggy features, again business decisions are made on where to direct resources to address each one of them.  They know about them, but are only working on those that have the greatest impact to their biggest customers.  Companies make these decisions all the time.  Look at all the recent noise on how GM made decisions relative to their recalls if you don't believe me. 

Autodesk and The Foundary probably have a more equal distribution of sales from the individual users relative to large production houses and that is why their behaviors are different.

I would rather believe that this is what going on rather than the worst case alternative that everyone seems to be jumping to: That MAXON is out to milk their user base of every last dime with very little regard to providing a quality product.  Like Hrvoje implied, that is a losing strategy over time and does not make sense.  Companies really don't operate that way unless they perceive that the resources necessary to compete over the long term are so significant and result in such little additional market growth that they will end up losing money.  At that point, they are working to maximize profit for the business owners before exiting the market all together. I don't believe that is the case otherwise we would not be getting updates....they would just sell us MSA's but provide nothing back.

Sorry...but our place is at the back of the bus.  It is what it is and that won't change anytime soon.  If you want more love from the company you buy your software from then everyone best follow Nigel's lead and use a package where the individual user represents a bigger part of their business.

Dave

​In honor of Nigel, we should extract a couple of his most famous sayings from his tutorials and edit them together into a some mix audio tape or make them ring tones!

"Now how cool is that?"  "In the Zed direction"  "Make editable"...

Dave

With the exception of our mutual praise and respect for Nigel, this thread is devolving into yet another C4D bashing.  I may also point out that bashing C4D is becoming more commonplace for all the reasons mentioned.  

I feel for Hrvoje's position but do want to caution that regardless of the truth, it is hard to argue that MAXON listen's to its customers after many consecutive years of waiting for a significant update to Bodypaint and not getting one.  Now, this isn't like three guys from Scranton, NJ have been waiting for an update to how CTRL-SHIFT works as a hot key since R15 and been left wanting.  No, this is an entire user community screaming that a major portion of the software (once sold as a stand-alone product) has gone virtually untouched for half a decade!  

You just can't defend that!  Don't even try because to do so only works against your outstanding reputation and standing within the C4D community.  MAXON desperately needs more people like you (experienced users who know how to code) and I don't want you to get discouraged fighting a battle you cannot win when you are shackled by an NDA.

Now I understand MAXON's NDA policy.  But had every portion of the software been improved consistently over the years, I don't think it would be a big deal.  But to ignore such major portions of the C4D for so long and then go silent about it helps no one.  It does not help MAXON, its employee's and especially its users.  

Things have to change. Rather than try to change our opinions, please work within MAXON and try to change their policies.  Trust me, it will be an easier battle to fight.

Until then:  Is this how we want to remember Nigel's C4D Cafe?  

Do we really want to turn a place that grew in popularity because it unselfishly reached out to all users with welcoming arms and gave them the support they need to grow their skills into nothing more than a sounding board for our frustrations with MAXON?

Nigel's enthusiasm and training is what brought me to C4D.  The phrase "How cool is that!" is probably permanently ingrained in our collective conscience.  

I hope that spirit continues.

Dave

Will the Cafe continue?  I think because Hrvoje commented that it will implies that he will be the one doing it, but it takes more than someone behind the scenes managing the forum software to make the Cafe what it is today.  It takes someone with a deep personal commitment to help the Cafe members and the knowledge, time and talent to do so.  I think Hrvoje has all but one of those criteria: the time to do so!  My sense is that he is pretty busy pushing C4D development to meet our growing demands and that is a full time job for anyone.

Nigel was unique in that respect and people like him are few and far between.  MAXON does not realize that the C4D community lost a precious resource and unless someone like Nigel steps in (which would be miracle because Nigel was a class act and there are not many like him) there will be gradual shift in the community as a good number of users move away from the program and MAXON will be at a complete loss to understand what is causing it or how to stop it.

Dave

I agree with Nigel's decision to move on for the reasons he's given.  It is hard to continue supporting a forum for a product that you no longer believe in.  I will miss his involvement with C4D but hope that we continue to stay in contact with each other over the years.  Nothing prevents that from happening other than letting the old adage of "out of sight, out of mind" take hold.

Like Nigel, with each modo release you just see more and more tools being added and then look at C4D and see a development pace that pales by comparison.  Couple of things that I need to consider if I were to see MAXON further mismanage C4D's development:

1. Cost of software and plugins, but also time to learn a new platform, time to convert assets to a new platform, cost for new modo tutorials, etc.  Plus lost opportunity cost of everything C4D related that I have purchased in the past.  Now, this does not mean that I can't still create something in C4D and port it over to modo, but over time there will be a point where R16 will no longer run on a future version of Windows...and at that point, it is game over.
2. modo stability.  Okay....love all the new features, but have they made modo more stable in the process?  Part of the "stodginess" in the MAXON development cycle probably has to do with one thing: Stability.  So it is a double edged sword because you take stability for granted only until you switch to a less stable program.
3. The future of The Foundary:  Not sure where The Foundary is going to land in terms of new owner.  I would really want to see how that plays out before making a switch.
4. modo interface.  Sorry, but I just can't get my head wrapped around their object and material management.  I purchased modo 401 (still have it), but regretted it because of the complete lack of tool specific training, training that was given via verbal hot-key descriptions only (very hard to follow unless the instructor talks slow---which they don't).
5. Having the right tool is more important than having a new tool:  Computer programs are tools. Evaluate whether or not you need the tool before you purchase it. My interests are more effects related and as such XP3 and TFD suit my needs just fine.
6. Never underestimate the value of intuitive software.  We all love shiny new toys and modo marketing is really great at selling the next version of their software.  But as you watch the video's, keep asking yourself how long will it take you to grow your skills as proficiently as the people demoing that feature.  Will there be enough training available to get you up that learning curve?  I have to say, while the tools look cool, they don't look that intuitive to use.

Now, don't read too much into what R17 will or will not have based on Nigel's decision.  Remember that all the R14 beta testers were completely surprised by sculpting as it was added pretty late in the beta testing cycle.  Alas though, I fear that MAXON's approach is to partner with other companies (Allegorithmic, Side Effects, etc.) as a means to add new features rather than develop them internally.  This does nothing for the user as we are already paying a premium for C4D but now have to purchase other programs should we desire those features.

Not sure what the future of The Cafe really is...but I think more would be done for the C4D community if it was just folded up rather than sold.  Why?  Well, like every other user out there, I am ripping mad at MAXON management for how they are NOT protecting my investment.  I am sure that C4D Cafe has helped promote a number of sales for MAXON and represents a really good sales channel for them.  Think about it: if you were interested in C4D, what other site would you go to that provides as much training and guidance as this site does? Threatening to close this site completely may get MAXON's attention and actually force them to listen to the customer, understand their anger and actually do something about it.  Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen.  One thing that continues to be developed by MAXON over the years is their arrogance.

Let me end with a huge thank you to Nigel!  While we support your decision, we are sad to see you go!

Dave