BoganTW

Haha.. this seems a tad harsh. Maybe some people can afford to pay for both? Also the slave rhetoric seems mildly uncalled for, but perhaps the Christmas season has led you to celebrate early. Nothing wrong with this if you have - unless you tell us otherwise. Anyway, don't want to derail the thread with an argument. I notice though the camps seem to be dividing along the lines of - ZBrush owners who are unhappy they'll likely have to start paying more for the software they used to get every year for free. Blender owners happy they no longer have to pay every year for their software. and C4D owners present and future who don't give a shit that the alternate software is free and are happy to pay for C4D. Shrug. Again, I get that this might seem like the apocalypse in some quarters, but now that ZBrush is being folded into Maxon One (presumably) I'll likely check it out. Hopefully the Maxon guys can work some of their UI magic on it. Yeah, I gather some icons are missing in R25. I don't really care and am not that bothered. If it was up to me the Maxon guys should just fold ZBrush into C4D, the same way that Blackmagic brought Fusion and Fairlight into DaVinci Resolve, everything in the one app with different tabs at the top to shift between screens and anything you do in one automatically translates to the other. This would probably involve someone somewhere doing a fair bit of work though. If ZBrush ends up in C4D maybe Beeple can sculpt a Mount Rushmore made up of famous C4D figures like Noseman and Rick Barrett.

Won't argue with others who feel different but for me this will get chucked into my imminent Maxon One sub, so I'm fine with it. Not sure if I'll be using it in a hurry though.

Hrvoje, feel free to PM me when the shop is back up. My new day job has started and I'll be buying all the node training to watch before I dive in with a new computer and Maxon sub in early 2022.

Which is harder, making some new icons, or fixing bugs? I get that there are levels of complexity to both, and they shouldn't just hire some guy walking down the street to get a pizza to do either task. I think I read the justification that was posted somewhere for the new C4D missing icons, and I still don't understand it.

Thank you for the informative posts guys. Re "If it's not causing a problem it's not a bug", this makes sense, but I'm mainly referring to the stuff that the Blender guys are calling bugs, hence 'loads of bug fixes' etc. They already list lots of improvements and updates, tons of those, but at the end they refer to heaps of bug fixes too. Nothing wrong with bug fixes but it does make me wonder how much stuff ever needs fixing with them. C4D seems to do their occasional service packs, some bigger than others. But on this ominous note there are Twitter threads where various high profile dudes are saying C4D has seemed more buggy than before. I will find out myself in a few months or thereabouts.

This is cool, but there is something that puzzles me (not hugely) every time a release of Blender comes out. Each release of Blender I've ever seen advertised boasts about how many bugs they fixed in the latest update. Then the next release of Blender comes out, and again, they talk proudly of how many bugs they've fixed in the latest update. Does each update introduce a shitload of new bugs, or are there just too many already and they never quite get rid of them? Because however great the 3.0 version is, I'm assuming the next version of Blender will again have a big description of how buggy the earlier version was, and how those bugs have been fixed in the new version, rinse and repeat. Possibly they should just fix the bugs and then not tell anyone the bugs were there in the first place, I dunno. It'd be dishonest but it would maybe make the software seem less buggy. I don't think I even hear Blender users whining about bugs much (not that I read their forums), but Blender seems by default to note that each release has fixed an ENORMOUS number of bugs. Unless I'm missing something, this seems to suggest that an enormous number of bugs are in the program. Is Blender buggy? Do people notice bugs when they use it? I have no idea. But I have to assume it has heaps of bugs and that these bugs cause problems, so they spend time fixing the bugs that were causing problems. if the bugs weren't causing problems, why would they bother to fix them? So they fix the bugs, which is cool. So how many bugs are in the new version? The next version will give me an idea, because it will likely talk again of how many bugs they've fixed. All these new features and rapid development are very cool and enticing - I think they're adding stuff at around 1100% the speed C4D gets it, maybe faster - but how many of these new features are buggy is a different question. John Dickinson (Motionworks) has happily and vocally left C4D for Blender. He posts a lot about how much he's enjoying modelling in Blender. I am curious about Blender but there are few things more annoying in software than encountering bugs. Just thinking - are the bugs fixed a few weeks after release, so the non-buggy version would really be 3.0.01 (or similar) rather than 3.1? This would explain it. Does Blender experience a higher rate of bugs than C4D? Are things basically the same? Are they different? Do people have thoughts about these bugs? Or do they never really think about it, because they never notice the bugs, and each release's bug fix is moot because it fixes bugs that they never realised were buggy, so they never cared? Below, the Blender dev team celebrates the arrival of Blender 3.0 and prepares for the post-release bug fix.

Male, female, diverse.

There was a School of Motion video with AE tech folk (plus Ryan Summers) posted a month or something ago, just talking about the AE updating/core rewrite/tech improvements or whatever AE is doing. But I haven't brought myself to watch it, would rather just wait and see if they actually deliver rather than hearing promises of what's coming. Cue C4D joke!

The Rate My Funeral guy deserves extra love. "That's rate, by the way." Matthew/Mash above does some of the very best tutorials. Funny, concise, engaging to watch, and absolutely clear as a bell, you get the concepts really strongly.

I was going to post a Thanassis - Sexy Beast meme weeks ago when one thread or another was heated - Don Logan is back and he is not happy - but piked out and never hit the submit button.

All the above cited are fantastic. A shout out to the Maxon Training Team too, and to the ongoing 3D and Motion Show presenters. Amazingly helpful, all of them.

Not really, but Rick Barrett responded to a question in an online chat more than five years ago, that redone dynamics were eventually coming. Since it's vaguely on their radar, they may as well go the distance and implement it.

Is anyone going to bother using a game engine to do dynamics in C4D? Equally - are many people going to be doing their dynamics in Houdini, then bring them from there over to C4D? If they're making things bounce and blow up in Houdini, wouldn't they just stay in Houdini? Maxon doesn't make Unity or Houdini so I would have figured they'd be looking at a way of improving the dynamics in C4D rather than pointing across the road and telling users to go to another application. Sure, I can see some people saying since Unity and Houdini are so great, why bother using C4D for it or hoping for an improved solution? But doesn't this defeat the purpose of developing anything at all for C4D? I'm not sure why the existence of game engines and Houdini means that C4D shouldn't bother improving what they have.

Stu, one of the top guys now in charge of Maxon development, has a heavy VFX background, and not much motion graphics background at all. He used to work at ILM, and has done a ton of FX work since. This doesn't change what anyone else in the thread has said, but it possibly suggests VFX is now more likely to be on their radar. It's certainly on his. Scene nodes will be part of anything Maxon makes in future. Not sure why this means particles need to be at the end of the line.

Thank you. We were stuck in lockdown here in Melbourne and couldn't attend, so I had weird stuff happening like the lady who won best actress at the fest 'liked' my Instagram post about the movie shortly after it screened, and a director with a feature there suddenly followed me on Twitter. Go figure. I'm hopeful when next year's festivals come around we'll have something to show again and can attend in person. Final Cut and Resolve both appear to run happily on the new Macs (especially the former), and I'm sick of waiting for the various Adobe products to reach the same level of reliability.

ICM. I’ve been doing 3D stuff for about a year and a half. I render regularly - stills - and occasionally animations. It’s nothing fancy and it is dabbling. My main preoccupation is filmmaking, and I had a film screen at the TCL Chinese Theater in LA last month, its third international fest. Yes, it’s a guess that a 2021 MacBook Pro will be better than my 2010 iMac. Not many people are arguing that it won’t be. My issue is that I need to also have a workable laptop for portable shoots and for travel, something with a fast SSD that can run Resolve and let me grade in Fusion. The new MacBooks fit this. Your experience in working for multiple companies doesn’t change my requirements, which is to have something which can cover multiple bases, which will be reliable and won’t crash, and which has most of its software optimised for M1 so I can get a bit extra bang for the buck. Your suggestion for Mac users is on target as far as it goes, but doesn’t cover my need to have something that can edit 6K Blackmagic files when I’m shooting and cutting on location, or overseas. The M1 can largely do that but being able to hit 32GB RAM is better, and the original M1 can’t do that.

It's trivial for what I'll ultimately be doing as it will relate to either stills, or animations where I plan to work on it for a week or so, then render at the end of the week, at which point I won't care if a one hour render becomes three or four. Probably also pertinent. I'm unlikely to be doing animations or stills professionally for quite some time if ever - 3D will be a time sink on the side - so the professional requirement to get 3D renders done on deadline won't loom as large for me as for others. Again this is why I don't see the need to jump over to Windows and invest in multiple GPU's just to get things rolling a few times faster. So what are we arguing about? The new MacBook Pros will be more powerful than an Air. Is this a problem? This is true but the last time I did video editing I found Windows asking for updates to be multiple times more annoying than any of the other impediments you've quoted. A 2021 MacBook Pro will be faster than my iMac from 2010, so hmmmm and emoji all you want. Again I don't see the problem. Cool. If you respond to this post please just do a fat paragraph, and I'll do the same, the multiple sentences quoted in staccato fashion has its uses and I've done it myself in the past. but this week I'm not in the mood.

I already know all that. Yet somehow people still managed to work in Cinema 4D a handful of years ago when things were a bit slower. Go figure. Now they're a bit faster. You somehow seem determined to bring in the peak workload of a professional artist cranking out multiple shots under a deadline, in a thread about pretty decent laptops that can now run C4D very nicely. Are they really going to be buying one of these machines to do their work on? You mention the example of someone doing look dev with lots of iterations. Is a professional 3D artist going to be doing his look dev on a 14-inch MacBook? I thought he'd be seeking out a bigger screen for a start. So then maybe that artist buys a big screen and connects it to his laptop. That would be better. But with that bigger screen he'd be doing this at a desk or workbench, so he'd really be better off getting a desktop, maybe with all those GPU's you mentioned, as he could then update the parts and replace stuff if needed. That would make sense. But that setup is not a laptop. Does the person want to buy a laptop, or do they not? There's a reason people buy them sometimes, and it isn't because they want a desktop. It's because they want a laptop. If you're buying a laptop and doing laptop stuff with it, it's not a huge help to know that a desktop can be faster. Call the news networks, a desktop machine sitting on your desk can do some more things than the portable MacBook you chuck in your bag. Who would have thought this could be the case? The questions may be though, if someone gave you an M1 Max laptop with R25 (or Blender or whatever), would you get any work done? Or would you be pulling your hair out because that particular system isn't as fast as your rig that has 3 x expensive GPU's attached? Maybe you'd be doing the latter. Shrug. I'll be coming from a 2010 iMac with a set-up that did CPU rendering only. When I'm using the laptop, I'm not sure I'll be bothered that a desktop with multiple expensive GPU's attached is faster. From the sound of it you might not be able to do it but plenty of artists manage to remember their goals despite being interrupted sometimes. They even managed to do it several years ago, when the interruptions were longer. Nothing personal but there are already heaps of videos appearing on Youtube with people doing C4D scenes on the new MacBooks and expressing happiness at how fast it is. One guy also appeared to test the very same card you mentioned earlier and noted that yeah, it was a bit faster - yet for some reason he also doesn't seem to care that much. Again - shrug. Did anyone ever get any work done prior to that card you mentioned being on the market? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they did. To an extent though, while your posts remain informative and thoughtful, this thread is generally about what it will be like to use C4D on the new laptops, and I understand you won't be using C4D on these new laptops as you presumably aren't using C4D again in the future. So I'm not sure why you're hugely concerned about how C4D will be running on these laptops, as you will never be using C4D on them. Will someone who is using C4D on this laptop be happy? Probably.

Wow, twenty two seconds. If he saves that much time ten times a day, that's three and a half minutes daily, or a bit under half an hour each week. Or if he does it forty times a day, that's around 15 minutes a day that he's saved, giving him a bit longer to go make a sandwich or something. If the test scene is a still, and he's going to be cranking out long animations, the comparison makes more sense as the 24fps adds up. Which begs the question if he's the sort of guy who absolutely has to get that client animation done by 5pm this afternoon, or if he's working on a project where he can just let it render during dinner while he walks outside to enjoy the fresh air and the sound of kids playing in the local park. I can see how one of those two could be a PC guy and the other an Apple guy TBH. I'm not sure if the aforementioned stats make up for being stuck in the Windows ecosystem for the next half decade with a noisy PC and its multiple GPU's cooking away on the desktop, attached to a monitor which you've had to shop around for in the hope that it will be as colour correct and nicely calibrated as the iMac ones will be come this April. And if the guy is under the gun and absolutely has to get those scenes to clients, can't he just chuck it to a render farm rather than stockpiling 3080TI GPU's, which (checks Google) seem to top out over $2500 Aussie dollars each? Maybe he does multiple scenes each week and his life is spent cranking out one animation after another, while the PC is cooking away and he's doing the things Windows users do to get the program to stop asking for updates. The data is useful and might be extra useful to Octane fans, but you're not really selling me on the benefits of this. It's faster but for some reason I don't really care. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Also is this guy comparing a maxed out desktop to a portable laptop? I'm not sure if he's noticed but there are additional things laptops can bring to your day besides GPU rendering speeds.

A very funny review from Stu Maschwitz (@ Maxon) of the new laptops. I don't understand his brief Redshift demo image but the overall discussion is good and informative. https://prolost.com/blog/m1max

Filipstamate, I skipped over most of your first long paragraph as I got bored reading it. Sorry. You have this habit (I won't use the word dumb as that would be insulting) of loosely paraphrasing or making up comments and then sticking quote marks around it, then asking someone to address the comment you've chucked into quote marks as if they were the one who said it. You did it to Rick earlier too. From memory I never said subs were good for every single person anywhere and everywhere - which is what you've written and thrown quote marks around - I just said that they were perfect for me and I didn't understand all the fuss and whining. I also conceded maybe thirty pages back (or was it 25?) that I could see why it didn't suit a few people here and there. Given that I've already conceded that it won't suit the occasional unfortunate soul, you'll need to rephrase your commentary into something more accurate if you want me to read it. Feel free to dig back twenty or thirty pages and dig up exact quotes if you want me to respond to stuff I've said earlier, otherwise don't bother and stop wasting everyone's time writing nonsense. Nothing personal but if you're going to spend time constructing an argument about stuff I've said, it's probably best you address it to stuff I've said rather than stuff I haven't.

Ingvarai, maybe just use the R25 demo for two weeks and see if you like it? I'm not sure if any newcomers are going to be diving into R25, then they somehow see the older GUI and complain that the old one looks better. Jops you make some good points. But with marketing maybe lots of people these days just go to Youtube and see the coverage there? I think there's a dozen or more channels that regularly cover each batch of new C4D features in depth. That's how I heard about them. Also Jops the Core4D spellcheck keeps changing your name to 'cops' which might come in handy if the thread gets rowdy and some of the more agitated posters need to be sent behind bars for a bit.

TBH I'd find it annoying if someone dug up comments I'd written nearly two months ago just to use it anew as a cudgel.

I see links citing last year's M1 chip as 7608 in multicore mode. In the above video the M1 Max gets 12173.

Interesting C4D, Blender, Redshift results here. Turn the captions on for English subtitles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJK2m4YIK4s