BoganTW

I'm curious if there's a decent Intro to Python for C4D course or tutorial series anywhere. Bit of a blind spot for me.

Remind me again how Maxon is exploiting my free labour? Are they exploiting the free labour of every other subscriber, or just me? Put things in all caps as much as you want. I barely even noticed you in this thread until you called me a shill. Feel free to re-read your plea for people to stay classy, then walk over to your bathroom and have a long, hard look in the mirror. And if you and other twits think that Maxon is paying me or a few others specifically to spend time rebutting things on this forum - WTF for? to steer conversations among the 30 or 40 people in the world who aren't locked out due to the paywall? - then you have a paranoia problem as well. I'm preparing for work, it's not Maxon or 3D related, and I see a notification that you responded to a post of mine. The same thing happened yesterday, the only difference then being the unexpected surprise that I get called a shill for chipping in an observation to this thread - an observation that remains accurate and which no-one has bothered to rebut or even go out of their way to address. Namely, why is Maxon expected to change policy as a one off for an online poster on a forum full of sad folk angry at Maxon, under a thread title designed to paint Maxon as the bad guy? Beats me. Should they change policy for everyone, a random few, or just him? More specifically, are there any signs the crowd here warrants special treatment, given the special treatment they've gone out of their way to throw at Maxon over the last (is it three or four now?) years? ICM still gets a few punches in every chance he can, Dave gets given his own sarcastic moniker, it drags on and on. Re the title of this thread, Maxon will not allow him to extend, etc etc. Do they need to? Do they have to? Is it better if they do or don't? Are there other things that people are not allowed to do, or just this one thing for him? And are there other things that other companies also don't let him do? Or is it just Maxon not letting him do this one thing, whereas every other company in the world lets him do everything? Beats me. You'd think there would be room for debate, but it seems not. I will continue to read other posts in this thread though for further info about what Maxon will and won't let him do, and hopefully you'll be here as well, as we learn more about this situation in the coming weeks and months. I don't know you at all but if you're concerned about being called a dickhead in a forum thread, possibly don't jump at random strangers and call them a shill during a conversation. You can consider the insult dialled down or deleted to whatever degree you prefer if you change the language you chucked my way. I'll even delete the offending words from my posts if you delete the (evidence free, so I'd be puzzled why you'd stick with it) accusation from yours. Can't be fairer than that. But if you're keen to keep the accusation out there then my own fairly innocuous response can stay there too. So I guess that ball is firmly in your court. "If you're really paying for your subscription with your own money" etc etc I dunno if this is a foreign concept for you, a brain fart, trouble at grasping the obvious, or another example of your paranoia, but pretty much every bill people pay, including subscriptions to 3D software, is usually paid by people using their own money to pay for it. Who pays for your bills, your mum or your dad?

My bad, I didn't realise more than one person in this thread was going to throw the shill accusation around like a dickhead. But thanks for making it clearer. I pay my sub for the software, and somehow I'm a shill? This forum never changes.

They better have a cool promo video ready for all this sim stuff.

EDIT - long rant edited because it was boring. What was the bad practice? Not rolling out the red carpet for you? Someone call the cops. The nicest, kindest person in this thread is having a bad week because Maxon won't throw him a discount. Since you're clearly the most deserving 3D user in the world I'm not sure how my faith in humanity will ever recover.

Have a dig through the comments on Dave's Twitter post for a couple of extra clues. We might have some new cool stuff in store late next month.

Good question, I've heard nothing either way and even though I'm using C4D 2023 right now I dunno where to check. Maybe Rick can add a note.

Half the thread is full of passive aggressive whinging and potshots at the company. Does that normally encourage companies to do something as a special one-off just to win over someone making narky posts at them? Maybe it does, but from general observation I've noticed it actually usually doesn't.

So why are you still using Maxon products if they're so bad?

Fair enough. Though I'm assuming Dave's opinion should carry some weight. Hope things get sorted for you, but any time a customer suggests they should be allowed to do something, the company needs to weigh up whether they've disallowed anyone else the same thing previously, and whether this opens them up to complaints afterwards for changing their mind. "You let him have it, why couldn't I have it?'" etc etc Luckily I am not in charge of C4D. If I was I'd be demanding extra Easter eggs get put into it, like an Atari 2600 tank battle emulator for when users and their buddies get bored.

Dwelling on the upside of this thread rather than the bumpy last few pages, I like the topic, the stuff re-tweeted by Dave, and the examples others have posted. With Dynamics getting lots of love I see tons of room for cool things to happen if pyro, particles, and volumetric fog gets a look in at C4D as well. Very fun and cool.

HiFly, Correct, I only copied half the paragraph. The bit you've pasted above doesn't have your name in it, so I'm not sure where it clearly says you personally can extend your annual maintenance. It says an unnamed 'you' can do it, and this is after it's described that person as being someone who 'just purchased Redshift', and that their 'recent purchase' has that level of maintenance. BIG EDIT - I see Dave and others have confirmed all the relevant details, so I guess the mystery has been solved.

Did you just purchase it / is it a recent purchase? Dunno if they're treating older customers renewing differently to those who just bought it. I'll stay out of this thread hereafter as I haven't read up on what they're doing here (since I'm subbing it has zero to do with me). Good luck.

Clever observation and I can't disagree.

So none of the people currently running and working on C4D have a passion for what they're working on? Leaving Dave out of it for a minute, I hadn't noticed all the other Maxon names that come to mind being indifferent to the subject of Cinema 4D. If bugger all has changed then what is the problem? That noted, Rick posts here, Srek posts here, Hrvoje posts here, Fritz posts here, and Dave posts here. Possibly Dave posts the least of those, so I guess you've got him there, and maybe you'd be happier if he posted less. You mention all those other forums and say they 'had' nice communities, presumably before Maxon - which doesn't run any of them - did something mysterious that soured the good old days. I'm not sure if CGTalk going down the toilet is Maxon's fault, unless Infograph there is a rogue Maxon employee. Noting in passing that since the policies are what they are, there's clearly nothing Dave could say to make folks like yourself feel better about them, so 'tone deaf' presumably just means he isn't imbibing the glass half empty that you've got hold of. Well it's a good thing you subbed then, given that there was no benefit, as it clearly would have been a disaster if you hadn't. Maxon apparently makes the sub and advertises it for people who want to sub, see the benefit of it, and like what it brings, so I suppose seeing zero benefit or use yet doing it anyway might create some odd feelings after you've done it. I'm not sure if this is a common thing with subscribers though, most of whom presumably sub because they want to, rather than subbing because they don't, like you're apparently doing. You note that you had 'several years' notice that subs were where things were going, and you'll be a better judge than me as to whether this was long enough notice or not. Not subbing would have also been a choice, given that there was no benefit in subbing and you already had the perpetual versions. But fair enough, probably I'm missing the specific reasons you found yourself in. Possibly some months or years from now the other DCC competitors will develop their software to the extent that suddenly you find them viable and you can jump ship. I'm assuming this isn't the case yet. This next bit takes the biscuit though. What a wank. Any benefits out there perhaps for a few folk by making the software cheaper and easier to access? Yeah, fuck those people, it's clearly a retrograde step and they should have kept that initial purchase price sky high. Since you're subbing you're already getting the second and third of those, particularly the third. But righto, clearly someone running a studio with multiple C4D licenses who hates subs and presumably chugs along doing C4D testing for Maxon at the same time is going to be irked when his whole studio of perpetual C4D licenses is shoved into subscription against his will. Since Maxon aren't selling perpetuals any more I'm not sure how frequently this combination of events will ever reoccur again in the future though. Maxon's focus is clearly on helping and supporting and pleasing the people who like subs, and I think this general helpfulness seems to offset the apparent cold shoulder they're giving to people who hate subs, the dramatic depiction and mafia-style callousness of which I feel you exaggerate just a tad. On page 4 of this thread 3D-Pangel guesstimated Maxon earning 400% more than usual through the pandemic and the subscription period. Did they chuck the price up by 400% or did a bunch of people find subs more attractive than trying to squirrel away thousands to buy into that first year of C4D ownership? Moot point I guess but as usual these threads show the people that were unhappy before are happier now, and the people who were not overly unhappy earlier are now sour tempered and in a black and unforgiving mood. Shrug. If I had reasons to prefer C4D perpetuals I'd maybe share the gloom, but since I really don't and since Maxon aren't going back I'm assuming you'll eventually find some direction or solution that leaves you happier than the sour, mean-spirited whinge posted above.

Are they keeping the receipts to show to their accountant at the end of each financial year to claim it back for tax / business reasons, or just a hobbyist chucking money away because they like mucking around in 3D. Bit of a difference and one of them probably 'needs' to do those things more than the other. I'm in Australia though so maybe people elsewhere can't claim software expenses on tax like we can.

That will keep you busy for a long while. Even Houdini alone would.

It's pretty cheap. That one I'd be happy to throw money at them annually if they'd update faster. But I'll have a good look early next year. Moho animation software is the other one I'll be checking out, 2D only but a lot of fun.

I'm enjoying my sub. Come next year when I re-sub I'm going to skip / pause for one or two months to look at DaVinci Resolve and Affinity Designer for a bit, get a bit more fluid with those, then re-sub to C4D. Totally flexible and I'll be restarting with their April 2023 release under my belt (+ maybe its first bug fix). Generally I feel it's up to me when I re-sub, rather than thinking, oh jeez I better hurry up and upgrade to C4D R31 or else it'll be even pricier when R32 rolls around.

Agree. Fascinating to see that after some enthusiastic comments re S26, Matt generally seems Over It re C4D and / or Maxon. Don't want to put words in his mouth, 'over it' is copyright 2022 BoganTW and not him.

I totally get what you're saying, but was there a stronger sense of community with Maxon back when the guys that ran it were in perpetual hiding and their Youtube channel was stuttering along? Now they're all popping up regularly and Noseman is chatting to posters during the live Training Team broadcasts and McGavran and others are jumping in here on a regular basis. Probably the sense of community is different, but given what I've just noticed I'm not sure how the sense of community has completely evaporated. And if many people are subbing then it suggests many people aren't fussed that subs are a thing and consequently aren't irked that Maxon has brought in subs. The lacklustre update seems to have only very recently changed, but changed it finally has, so I think for some - not all - they may be happy where Maxon is going.

Thoughtful comment from Matt (Mash) above. I think in another year or two or polishing and features the Blender guys will be even further ahead in various areas. I have no interest in looking at it but many will. I figure a decade or more has gone by with this rewrite, another 5 years isn't that long. it could be worse, it could be another 10.

This is a solid summary. I need to link it the next time someone writes a long rant that basically says, because of subs, Maxon is doomed. Subs seem to be doing fine for them. So contrary to ICM's comment (and ignore this next bit ICM as I already know you disagree with it and it'll only rub you the wrong way) subs have been a great decision for Maxon and the C4D user base. This is unless a company making less money is somehow better for the company than a company making more money. They can start chucking those profits at developing new features. Or start chucking some of those profits at some new features, I dunno, whatever floats their boat. Someone got paid to develop the past six months or more of new stuff, so McGavran must have opened the cookie jar and thrown the devs a fat handful of coins, which led to them all running around chasing the money as it rolled everywhere before stuffing it in their pockets and running over to their workstations to start rapidly typing in lots of code. This isn't to disparage the handful of folks who feel that subs are a disaster equivalent to a government sponsored false flag anthrax attack. Subs are definitely a backward step for you guys and if you don't like them, you don't like them. You guys definitely have a nuanced and thoughtful point of view and you all rock.

Shrug. Maybe Beeple has brought in big bucks but the cool 3DMotionshow videos from others don't really excude a lets-get-rich vibe. And Maxon has gone from paywalling training videos at Cineversity to offering endless longform training videos for free on their training channel. I've subbed because I wanted to, annual, and haven't thought about the payment I made half a year ago since. Some of those new human vids posted by ICM are insane, anyone who clicks with Blender will be happy with a lot of things, for sure.

I'll definitely defer to ICM's choices for videos. The ones I posted were found with a ten second search on Youtube, and I've watched none of them. I agree that hopefully people will feel confident to move as they see fit into new waters, rather than feeling frustrated with things as they currently are.